Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: When do we become "experienced"? Post Reply Post New Topic
03/8/2019 at 12:04pm
 Location: Tidbury Green
 Outfit: Swift Fairway SE 442
View Tidburyboy's Profile View Profile   Reply to Tidburyboy Reply   Quote Tidburyboy Quote  
Joined: 03/9/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   1443
Tent Reviews:   2

Site Reviews Total: 17
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 2  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 7
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 15
Site Nights 2018: 2

Following on from gailbonney's question about the 85% "rule" (yes, I know it's guidance and not a rule) I've read loads of really helpful stuff, mostly on this forum about this. So I know it's a guide and the main point in terms of overall weight is not to exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.

I'm genuinely interested to hear peoples opinions on this. So, my question is when does a total novice, ie never towed anything bigger than a small box trailer before, become "experienced" enough to not be so concerned about the 85% guide?



-------------
2022 Skoda Karoq 2.0 Tdi


03/8/2019 at 12:17pm
 Location: The foot hills of no
 Outfit:  A full biohazard su
View moppetsdad's Profile View Profile   Reply to moppetsdad Reply   Quote moppetsdad Quote  
Joined: 29/3/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   1032
Tent Reviews:   1

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

In my view that is like asking how long is a piece of string.
Some folks would never be experienced enough to do it if they drive for a life time whereas others could safely do it straight away.

Some will be too nervous and others will be over confident to the point of being a danger to themselves and all those around them.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

-------------
David

    

I've stood on Lego and didn't even cry!!


03/8/2019 at 2:10pm
 Location: Lichfield
 Outfit: Coachman Amara 450
View tango55's Profile View Profile   Reply to tango55 Reply   Quote tango55 Quote  
Joined: 15/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   9587

Site Reviews Total: 23
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 3
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 24
Site Nights 2018: 0

There's no time factor involved regarding experience, it's more to do with how many miles being covered annually and not just on motorways either. It's how confident you feel towing on all sorts of roads especially the smaller country lanes that often lead to a site entrance. When you have towed in excess wind speeds and heavy rain etc. you gain the ultimate experience but even under those circumstances the advice is never to get complacent. However, you cannot stereotype each driver as equally having the same skills towing a caravan confidently as it's like someone passing their driving test first time whereby others can take many more attempts before displaying their personal confidence.
I have been towing for over 13 years but started with a small caravan and once you have learned how to reverse a short caravan, a longer caravan becomes a much more easier task so the initial skills learned have a huge bonus when buying a longer caravan which I found. Some caravanners haven't a clue how to reverse a caravan either which is something you also have to consider as being experienced. Having many years of towing experience I still prefer to adhere to the 85% rule because it makes sense and contributes to safe towing especially in adverse weather conditions and knowing that I'm within that margin gives peace of mind which helps to achieve that confidence.



03/8/2019 at 4:44pm
 Location: London
 Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
View Monty15's Profile View Profile   Reply to Monty15 Reply   Quote Monty15 Quote  
Joined: 17/9/2015

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2335

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 1  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 6
Site Nights 2018: 0

Well Tidburyboy that's a pretty intelligent and highly valid question, to which I doubt there is a definitive answer! Such is life!

I've been towing trailers of various types from car trailers to small goods/camping trailers to fairly big power boats for some 40 years, and with all sorts of cars/land/range/rovers, it's only in the last couple of years that I've towed a caravan though. Am I experienced? - Well partially, there is still more to learn despite a variety of outfits and many thousands of miles over all those years!

One thing I learnt from towing the power boats is that no two outfits are the same, I've towed the same boat in the same configuration behind a variety of cars, some were brilliant 'didn't know it was there' set ups and others were absolute pigs that felt like they were trying to throw you off the road at every opportunity! The 'numbers' were always OK, it was just the variabilities and characteristics of some tow vehicles in combination with the trailer, so don't take anything, including other people's experiences as a given.

When I was looking for a caravan a couple of years back, I took the opportunity at the NEC Caravan Show to have a free trial Towing Experience, just to get the feel of a caravan, and to have some professional critique of my abilities from an expert. I was a little rusty as I hadn't towed for some years, but it didn't feel alien. I was complimented on my driving standards/skills by the instructor, so all those years of towing other things must have had some benefit!

If the years have taught me anything, it's that assuming you are responsible enough to be legal in the first place, then correct loading of the car and trailer are critical for a safe and comfortable outfit.

And don't forget the small detail of things like tyre pressures! When I first picked my van up from the dealer, it was wobbling all over the place, and that was totally unladen in it's bare bones state. When I checked the tyre pressure, they were only two thirds of what they should have been! On inflating them to the manufacturers figure, it tows like a dream.

IMHO I think the 85% 'rule' is as dangerous as it's helpful, it could lead the inexperienced into a false sense of security, there are plenty of well set up outfits at or near 100% that are fine, but even at 85% a badly laden and set up outfit could and will bite you severely on the ar*se! That I think is where experience, or maybe it's more knowledge, pays off.

My towing 'rule' is only drive to the comfortable/safe limit of the outfit and to the road conditions, and never to theoretical expectations or the experience of others. I've cruised at 65, but I've also crawled along at 40 when circumstances demanded. I guess that is experience kicking in.


03/8/2019 at 10:53pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
View navver's Profile View Profile   Reply to navver Reply   Quote navver Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4664

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I think you are experienced when you know the factors which make the outfit less stable when choosing, setting up, loading etc and while driving and recognise when they are occurring enabling you to do something about it in time.


Advertisement



05/8/2019 at 7:42am
 Location: Tidbury Green
 Outfit: Swift Fairway SE 442
View Tidburyboy's Profile View Profile   Reply to Tidburyboy Reply   Quote Tidburyboy Quote  
Joined: 03/9/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   1443
Tent Reviews:   2

Site Reviews Total: 17
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 2  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 7
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 15
Site Nights 2018: 2

Pretty much as I thought then, it's not an easy question to answer as there are too many variables.

In particular, the individual's level of knowledge and attention to details such as nose weight and tyre pressures etc. My personal approach was to read, read, read and learn as much as possible. I'm like that

However, having spoken to quite a few people who tow, I'm amazed at the general lack of knowledge. It seems to me quite a few people just stick a hitch on the back of their car; hook their 'van up and go.

-------------
2022 Skoda Karoq 2.0 Tdi


05/8/2019 at 8:49am
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
View misterg's Profile View Profile   Reply to misterg Reply   Quote misterg Quote  
Joined: 09/12/2003

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   1538

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I have been towing nearly 50 years and still get things wrong despite experience,lists and sat nav and wife assisted.Only last year I drove away with the hitch not properly fixed and loud bump but no damage as still on grass.The following trip I drove through the site when leaving with fellow arm waving campers in persuit. The caravan alarm was sounding but I don’t hear well and my wife was phoning
Experience is only one factor .When you are experienced you are probably getting on a bit which brings its own little foibles!,

Post last edited on 05/08/2019 08:53:02

-------------
Mister G


05/8/2019 at 9:38am
 Location: 
 Outfit: 
View Bob61's Profile View Profile   Reply to Bob61 Reply   Quote Bob61 Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2009

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   10276
Tent Reviews:   4

Site Reviews Total: 28
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 2  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 4
Site Nights 2018: 3

'Experienced' means having made mistakes and survived.


05/8/2019 at 9:49am
 Location: 
 Outfit: 
View SGThomas's Profile View Profile   Reply to SGThomas Reply   Quote SGThomas Quote  
Joined: 16/10/2007

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6707
Tent Reviews:   1

Site Reviews Total: 116
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 4  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 15 
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 40
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 98

I will feel that I am experienced when my wife lets me tow without comment. Probably sometime in the 2020s


05/8/2019 at 10:00am
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
View misterg's Profile View Profile   Reply to misterg Reply   Quote misterg Quote  
Joined: 09/12/2003

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   1538

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

This post reminds me of the vast amount of information,weights and measures you need compared with when I started towing a caravan.
I think the only guide I can recall when I first towed was 1000cc car would tow a 10ft caravan, a1200 cc car would tow a 12 ft caravan and so on. It made things very simple. It must be a nightmare starting now with so much to think about.

-------------
Mister G


Advertisement



05/8/2019 at 10:29am
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
View iank01's Profile View Profile   Reply to iank01 Reply   Quote iank01 Quote  
Joined: 30/6/2004

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4062

Site Reviews Total: 5
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 5
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 10
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Tidburyboy on 03/8/2019
Following on from gailbonney's question about the 85% "rule" (yes, I know it's guidance and not a rule) I've read loads of really helpful stuff, mostly on this forum about this. So I know it's a guide and the main point in terms of overall weight is not to exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.

I'm genuinely interested to hear peoples opinions on this. So, my question is when does a total novice, ie never towed anything bigger than a small box trailer before, become "experienced" enough to not be so concerned about the 85% guide?





They are experienced towers when they feel confident about towing.


05/8/2019 at 10:47am
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit: Caravan and XC90
View thechief's Profile View Profile   Reply to thechief Reply   Quote thechief Quote  
Joined: 16/4/2005

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   282

Site Reviews Total: 5
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 3
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 2
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I've only been towing a caravan since summer 2013.

Before that I towed a Brenderup camping trailer (behind my Land Rover Discovery) which was a breeze and almost doesn't count as towing.

But we inherited a caravan in 2013. I hadn't towed anything that large or heavy before. I looked for advice online regarding loading, hitching and towing. I decided that there was no substitute for getting on with it so planned a trip to Ripon (about 45 miles).

The Ripon trip went well so three months later I towed the caravan down to the Dordogne. A two thousand mile round trip just about. I learned a lot on that journey. I learned about the dynamics of overtaking large vehicles moving at speed; I learned about being overtaken by large vehicles moving at speed; I learned about speed wobble and the effect of braking too hard; I learned about the feeling you get when the Alko ATC cuts in to "help" you brake; I learned about turning circle and manoeuvring in tight places; I learned the importance of ensuring your jockey wheel is up and properly locked.

We have done many more thousands of miles since but I always have a tiny little bit of anxiety when towing. I think it is healthy - keeps me on my toes.

Am I experienced? I don't think so, but I have experiences that help me.

TC


06/8/2019 at 8:16am
 Location: Cheshire
 Outfit: Sterling & Superb
View gailbonney's Profile View Profile   Reply to gailbonney Reply   Quote gailbonney Quote  
Joined: 31/8/2008

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   1359
Tent Reviews:   2

Site Reviews Total: 36
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 3  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 5  
Site Nights 2024: 3
Site Nights 2023: 6
Site Nights 2022: 7
Site Nights 2021: 25
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 16
Site Nights 2018: 24

I think that when you no longer see the towing part of your holiday as a chore or worry excessively about it, then you are almost there! We now treat the whole time away, including the journey, as our holiday and enjoy it!

I also agree that when you understand the practicalities of towing, you're probably there too. Its the folk (saw lots this weekend on M1,A14 and A1) who seem to think you can stick a van on the back of your car and go, ignoring speed limits etc... lots of weaving around and obvious disregard for other road users. Hopefully they'll be back from their hols before we set off!

-------------
Gail

Izzy 15.11.02 -25.12.12 RIP my beautiful girl
Lottie 15.08.99 - 07.12.13 RIP dottie Lottie
Millie ? - 03.05.14 RIP beautiful mad Mills

2024
April - Anglesey
Aug - Normandy & Brittany avec les chiens!






06/8/2019 at 1:52pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: 2019 VW Arteon + 2002 Avondale Dart
View SamandRose's Profile View Profile   Reply to SamandRose Reply   Quote SamandRose Quote  
Joined: 10/5/2016

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   557

Site Reviews Total: 27
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 3  
Site Reviews 2020: 3  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 16
Site Nights 2020: 16
Site Nights 2019: 13
Site Nights 2018: 3

Hi Tidburyboy. This is a point that I've made before as well, and it certainly calls into question how useful a piece of guidance is if it gives one recommendation for "novice" towers and another for "experienced" ones, without making any attempt at defining either.

The trouble is that both terms are relative. Someone might be experienced at towing HGV trailers, but these are physically about as different from caravans as it's possible to be. Then there's the human factor - some people are naturally more confident than others, and this cannot be quantified.

I think though that it comes down to how well YOU know YOUR car and YOUR caravan and can predict how they will behave in the sort of driving that YOU normally do. It just so happened that the ratio between the MTPLM of my first caravan (which I still have) and my car was 81%. Having towed for quite a lot of miles since then I'm now confident that the car could cope with a heavier weight. But it doesn't follow that the same would apply to any other car I happened to jump into. The worst snake I ever encountered was on a test drive of a 4x4 Hyundai towing an empty twin-axle caravan, which even without the weight of the four adults inside the car would have been less than an 80% ratio.

-------------
"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."


07/8/2019 at 7:16pm
 Location: Tidbury Green
 Outfit: Swift Fairway SE 442
View Tidburyboy's Profile View Profile   Reply to Tidburyboy Reply   Quote Tidburyboy Quote  
Joined: 03/9/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   1443
Tent Reviews:   2

Site Reviews Total: 17
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 2  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 7
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 15
Site Nights 2018: 2

Some interesting and useful comments. All appreciated, misterG's comment about age made me laugh, so true!

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that experience is knowing that it's important to research and learn properly and then do it properly. ie don't become over confident and skip the "little things" ie tyre pressures/nose weights, as they all combine with careful weight distribution etc to ensure the tow is safe and stress free.















-------------
2022 Skoda Karoq 2.0 Tdi


07/8/2019 at 8:04pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
View navver's Profile View Profile   Reply to navver Reply   Quote navver Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4664

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Yes but you also need to be aware of the prevailing conditions which can cause a problem.

High winds can buffet the van,

Lorries or coaches overtaking have a bow wave which can buffet you

Motorway bridges can shield you from cross winds then suddenly expose you to them causing buffeting.

Towing downhill can cause a snake and reduce your ability to do any thing about it. The van is pushing the car so will make a small snake much worse. Generally slow down before you start going down hill.

Driving slowly will allow you to tow a too heavy van safely. Driving fast will make a good match unstable.

You also need to know what to do in a snake. Braking can make it worse. Generally the advice is just ease off gently on the throttle to slow down. This is difficult to do downhill.

Longer single axle caravans will snake more than short ones of the same weight.

Long drawbars/A frames improve stability.

Twin axles are more stable but may be heavier.




In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














7532 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder