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Subject Topic: Advice if legal on B C C1 license Post Reply Post New Topic
13/8/2020 at 7:09am
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Hi,

We have purchased a van and expected that we are under the 3500kg limit. Since buying my parents are saying that I need to do my trailer test but we have all be confused.

Could anyone tell me if I am legal or not based on my license. My license does have B, C and C1.

Plate on Vehicle:
2030 KG
3130 KG
1 1150 KG
2 1070 KG

735kg (unbreaked) 1500kg (Breaked)
Peugeot 3008 (2009 - 2016) 1.6 HDi Active 5d EGC

Caravan is: 1159KG     1419KG MTPLM

Thank you in advance


via mobile 13/8/2020 at 9:14am
 Location: Royal Forest of Dean
 Outfit:  Swift Major 4SB
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Welcome to the forum,
It looks like you would be over the maximum allowable train weight.
What is the kerb weight of your car?

Tina


13/8/2020 at 9:18am
 Location: Worcestershire
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The top figure ‘A’ is the gross vehicle weight, the Maximum Allowable Mass (MAM) of the vehicle including occupants, fuel and payload.
The second figure ‘B’ is the gross train weight, this is the combined maximum allowable mass of the vehicle and trailer.
The third and fourth figures ‘C’ and ‘D’ are maximum axle loads front and rear respectively.
The maximum weight includes passengers, other loads, and fuel.

The maximum gross weight of the vehicle and the MTPLM of the caravan is 3449kg however the maximum train weight of the vehicle is only 3130kgs.

Even with a B+E it seems you cannot use the Peugeot tow the caravan unless the car has only one passenger and no luggage. Maximum you can tow is 1100kgs with car and caravan loaded.

If you want to tow the caravan you need to trade in the car for one that has a higher train weight and also consider doing a B+E.


13/8/2020 at 9:29am
 Location: Harrogate Yorkshire.
 Outfit: Skoda Octavia 4x4 & Compass Omega 482
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OK on a 'B' licence, but you are over the cars plated gross train weight of 3,130kg, which means you are illegal on the plated weights 2030kg + 1419kg = 3439kg. You also need to know the cars kerbweight, in the cars handbook, for the towing ratio.

-------------
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13/8/2020 at 9:34am
 Location: North Lincolnshire
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All the licence categories can be found on the GOV.UK website under the heading 'Driving Licence Categories' so you need to check that. I think your parents are correct as even with a C1 licence you need to add the E category to tow your caravan. If you are in any doubt contact the DVLA.

Unfortunately you have another problem which is your tow car. Where did the figure of 1500kg braked towing limit come from? According to your figures it has a towing limit of 1100kg (3130-2030kg) and your caravan is heavier than that unladen. For a caravan with a maximum weight of 1419 kg you will need a more powerful tow car.


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13/8/2020 at 9:57am
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by HumberWolf on 13/8/2020
Unfortunately you have another problem which is your tow car. Where did the figure of 1500kg braked towing limit come from? According to your figures it has a towing limit of 1100kg (3130-2030kg) and your caravan is heavier than that unladen. For a caravan with a maximum weight of 1419 kg you will need a more powerful tow car.


I checked on Parkers and that model does have a maximum towing weight of 1500kg so OP is correct. I suspect that it will really struggle on hills if at its maximum train weight.
Either way to tow that caravan they will need another tow car or swap the caravan for a 1100kg caravan to comply with the law. Probably better to do the B+E and trade in current car.


via mobile 13/8/2020 at 9:57am
 Location: Lincs
 Outfit: Skoda Yeti and Coach
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Either you need to change your van or your car to be legal.   If you change the car for a heavier one then you most possibly will need to take the test, but cannot say definitely till till you get a legal tow car for the Van's weight. So you need to decide which way to go and be legal.



Sennen


13/8/2020 at 11:49am
 Location: North Lincolnshire
 Outfit: Elddis Xplore 495
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 13/8/2020
Quote: Originally posted by HumberWolf on 13/8/2020
Unfortunately you have another problem which is your tow car. Where did the figure of 1500kg braked towing limit come from? According to your figures it has a towing limit of 1100kg (3130-2030kg) and your caravan is heavier than that unladen. For a caravan with a maximum weight of 1419 kg you will need a more powerful tow car.


I checked on Parkers and that model does have a maximum towing weight of 1500kg so OP is correct. I suspect that it will really struggle on hills if at its maximum train weight.
Either way to tow that caravan they will need another tow car or swap the caravan for a 1100kg caravan to comply with the law. Probably better to do the B+E and trade in current car.



I think you've looked at the figures for the current model. The old model is quoted by Parkers as having a towing limit of 1090kg.


13/8/2020 at 1:38pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: 2019 VW Arteon + 2002 Avondale Dart
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Welcome to the forum Brooksheff but I'm afraid you have a problem.

The first figure you have quoted is the maximum permissible weight of the car when fully loaded. The second figure is the 'gross train weight', which is basically the maximum weight of the car plus the maximum that a trailer towed by that car can ACTUALLY weigh (the trailer's MTPLM could be higher, provided that it wasn't actually loaded to that amount).

Subtract the first figure from the second to get the towing limit (1100kg in your case). It's therefore immediately clear that your caravan is too heavy to be legally towed by that car.

It makes no difference if other brochures, websites or even your car's manual give different weights, those on the car itself are the ones that are legally binding.

If you wish to keep your current car, you would need to change the caravan for one that does not weigh more than 1100kg when loaded.

Were you to keep the caravan and change the car, then licensing restrictions could become an issue. It's the Category B on your licence that's relevant here, and this means that the maximum permissible weights (NOT the actual weights) of your car and caravan combined cannot legally exceed 3500kg. With the caravan having an MTPLM of 1419kg, this would mean that the maximum permissible weight of the car would have to be (3500-1419) = 2081kg or less. Yet you'd realistically need the car's towing limit to be at least 1400kg (and preferably more than your caravan's MTPLM of 1419kg) otherwise you'd be back to the problem that you currently have.

Frankly there aren't many cars that satisfy both of these criteria. Most large family cars or medium SUVs (Ford Mondeo/Kuga, VW Passat/Tiguan etc) have higher weight capacities. You might just get away with a reasonably powerful version of a smaller car like a Focus or Golf, but many of these have lower towing limits.

A solution is to take a Category B+E extended test which increases the maximum allowable combined weight of car and trailer to 7000kg (more than you'll need for just about any car + caravan combination). However that's obviously more expense and I imagine quite a long post-Covid waiting list.

Sorry.

-------------
"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."


13/8/2020 at 8:11pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
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Surely the gross train weight is a weight not to be exceeded for the combined actual loaded weights of car and caravan. Agreed that for the licence requirement of not exceeding 3500kg is for maximum weights but that is not relevant here for this car.

Many cars used to give a high braked trailer weight but qualified it by saying it must be within the gross train weight. So a lightly loaded car can tow a heavier caravan than a heavily loaded car.

We dont know here what teh kerb weight of the car is. Some cars such as people carriers have a high gross weight capability but are driven only by a couple leaving a quite considerable extra capacity within the gross train weight.

The caravan also seems to have a very high payload allowance of 259kg.



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14/8/2020 at 6:07pm
 Location: Midlands
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Navver - I believe that what you say is correct but it seems academic in this case. Even the unladen weight of the OP's caravan is higher than the towing capacity of the fully loaded car. To tow the fully loaded caravan would mean reducing the weight of the car by up to 400kg to compensate - put simply, when packed for a holiday that's not going to happen.

Even if it were mathematically possible to load the car and caravan to within the gross train weight, there's no way I'd want to push it that close to the limit. Caravans less stable than most other types of trailer and tends to be towed for longer distances. If it was towing an agricultural trailer, for a few miles at low speeds to the nearest farm I might just take the chance.

I agree that licensing restrictions aren't an issue with the OP's current car, but mentioned them in case he/she considered changing it for a heavier one.

-------------
"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."



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