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Topic: Dedicated tow bar electrics.
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13/9/2020 at 3:20pm
Location: London Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
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There's a limited number of things that hanging a trailer off the back will have any impact on, a potential (but no doubt not exhaustive) list is:
* Stability control, may be adapted to improve anti-snaking of trailer.
* Electric motorised tailgate/bootlid, often disabled when trailer sensed to avoid accidental impacts with trailer hardware.
* Auto-lane control, disabled to avoid risk of inducing unexpected snaking.
* Car rear fog lights disabled (but trailer still enabled) to avoid reflected glare from trailer.
* Trailer Lamp failure integrated into standard car system (no need for separate direction indicator sound/visual warning device - some form of bulb function/failure warning is legal requirement)
* Reversing sensors disabled to stop false triggering by proximity of trailer when reversing.
Every car brand, model, and trim level, and manufacturers option list obviously impacts on what is or is not on any particular vehicle.
The above list is pretty much what is affected on my 2017 top trim level plus most option packs car with it's factory fit option towbar, with the obviously dedicated wiring.
TBH, I found out what was affected when hitching the trailer by mostly observation, nothing in the car manufacturers handbook, the car main dealers know nothing at all, the towbar only came with physical fitting instructions and no electrics info at all, even the towbar electrics manufacturer couldn't tell me anything unless I ripped the car apart (new car! - not inclined to do that!) to see model and serial numbers on the actual dedicated module. It seems nobody knew anything about anything and Google didn't do anything to improve that situation - maybe a good fitter may be able to enlighten you, but otherwise, the very best of luck trying to find any detailed info!
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via mobile 13/9/2020 at 3:27pm
Location: Outfit:
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Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 13/9/2020
There's a limited number of things that hanging a trailer off the back will have any impact on, a potential (but no doubt not exhaustive) list is:
* Stability control, may be adapted to improve anti-snaking of trailer.
* Electric motorised tailgate/bootlid, often disabled when trailer sensed to avoid accidental impacts with trailer hardware.
* Auto-lane control, disabled to avoid risk of inducing unexpected snaking.
* Car rear fog lights disabled (but trailer still enabled) to avoid reflected glare from trailer.
* Trailer Lamp failure integrated into standard car system (no need for separate direction indicator sound/visual warning device - some form of bulb function/failure warning is legal requirement)
* Reversing sensors disabled to stop false triggering by proximity of trailer when reversing.
Every car brand, model, and trim level, and manufacturers option list obviously impacts on what is or is not on any particular vehicle.
The above list is pretty much what is affected on my 2017 top trim level plus most option packs car with it's factory fit option towbar, with the obviously dedicated wiring.
TBH, I found out what was affected when hitching the trailer by mostly observation, nothing in the car manufacturers handbook, the car main dealers know nothing at all, the towbar only came with physical fitting instructions and no electrics info at all, even the towbar electrics manufacturer couldn't tell me anything unless I ripped the car apart (new car! - not inclined to do that!) to see model and serial numbers on the actual dedicated module. It seems nobody knew anything about anything and Google didn't do anything to improve that situation - maybe a good fitter may be able to enlighten you, but otherwise, the very best of luck trying to find any detailed info!
Well on that score I think I won't bother taking the punt on dedicated electric. My car doesn't have an motorised boot. Does have cruise control but not with auto lane guidance system. So that's two things irrelevant. I'd be interested if it altered my cars braking characteristics and stability control. Will keep digging for answers.
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13/9/2020 at 10:31pm
Location: Merseyside Outfit: Coachman 575
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Dimbles, with respect that is just not right.
Dedicated and universal do not work in the same way at all.
Dedicated wiring is wired to the manufacturers specification and has active components that talk to the body controller to let the vehicle know when it has a trailer connected. This allows the vehicle to utilise the onboard comms systems to make fundamental changes to the vehicle charging and information systems. On high end vehicles it can also change suspension, powertrain and ESP settings to allow for the trailer.
Modern charging systems run typically at 14v, they would not do any good at 10.5volts as you suggest and would not do much at 12.5v either. I could give you chapter and verse on regenerative braking and smart alternators but you can look that up. You do not shorten the life of an alternator by adding a trailer, they can, should and do, run for the life of the vehicle regardless of what is connected. The car companies validate this. If it fails prematurely this is a manufacturing issue not a design issue. If we have the same vehicle and have have the variant of vehicle with heated seats and I choose to drive with my heated seats on all of the time drawing 16A then does my alternator fail prematurely?
Your alternator on your current vehicle will be capable of generating anything between 70 and 100A, but typically running on about 30A so adding a trailer connection will not stress it.
If you have universal wiring it means that the vehicle does not know that you have a trailer attached and if the vehicle has smart alternator the fridge and battery charging may not work, although there are work around for this. Also, the indication of a trailer fitment, turn signal, and bulb failure will not work through the driver information panel.
The use of a canbus is totally irrelevant, as it is with the thousands of products I regularly see for sale claiming to be canbus compliant when they are inherently passive components.
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14/9/2020 at 1:25pm
Location: Manchester Outfit: Swift Challenger 524
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Always go for a dedicated system with new cars, its far safer. Depending on the car the electrnics will recogniser a trailer is fitted/connected and alter the traction control and braking characteristics accordingly, some may even change teh engine performance etc. We have had 3 car in the past volvo, vvauxhal x2, where connecting the van has altrered the dynamcis of the car etc.
Volvo - V70 - turned rear lights off whilst braking, and disenabled rear parking snesors, adjusted traction control.
Vauxhall Antara - Adjusted rear ride height, turned off rear lights, disenbled rear parking sensors, adjusred traction control. stop start deavtivated
vauxhall Insignia SRI tourer - Truned rear lights off, disnabled rear parking sensors, changed dynnamics of engine for towing, adjusted traction control and stability prgramme. stop start deavtivated
Currently on a BMW X1- and have not noticed and anything significant apart from lights and sensors.
never have to have any in to dealer for reprogramme either.
Would always now choose a dedicated towing kit.
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via mobile 14/9/2020 at 1:58pm
Location: Outfit:
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Quote: Originally posted by TrigGLX on 14/9/2020
Always go for a dedicated system with new cars, its far safer. Depending on the car the electrnics will recogniser a trailer is fitted/connected and alter the traction control and braking characteristics accordingly, some may even change teh engine performance etc. We have had 3 car in the past volvo, vvauxhal x2, where connecting the van has altrered the dynamcis of the car etc.
Volvo - V70 - turned rear lights off whilst braking, and disenabled rear parking snesors, adjusted traction control.
Vauxhall Antara - Adjusted rear ride height, turned off rear lights, disenbled rear parking sensors, adjusred traction control. stop start deavtivated
vauxhall Insignia SRI tourer - Truned rear lights off, disnabled rear parking sensors, changed dynnamics of engine for towing, adjusted traction control and stability prgramme. stop start deavtivated
Currently on a BMW X1- and have not noticed and anything significant apart from lights and sensors.
never have to have any in to dealer for reprogramme either.
Would always now choose a dedicated towing kit.
Sounds like there's a good chance my vauxhall meriva will adjust something when it detects a trailer.
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