Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: 450kg towing braked and unbraked Post Reply Post New Topic
via mobile 04/6/2021 at 12:18pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View ClaireAJ's Profile View Profile   Reply to ClaireAJ Reply   Quote ClaireAJ Quote  
Joined: 04/6/2021

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Hi, it says I can only tow 450kg. I am just wondering how this would work. I normally go in my C3 2017 Flair Puretech 82 5 door. I have a tent but fed up and would love to upgrade with a trailer tent. Is the 450kg include trailer, contents and car contents? Thank you, I'm very new.


04/6/2021 at 1:06pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

If your car's towing limit is 450kg that means you can tow up to 450kg. It means the trailer and it's contents cannot weigh more than 450kg, but it does not include anything you carry in the car. If you cram the car full of heavy stuff though, you could exceed the car's axle weight, especially if you have a trailer on the back as well.

I would imagine that many trailer tents would exceed 450kg.



-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 04/6/2021 at 1:14pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View ClaireAJ's Profile View Profile   Reply to ClaireAJ Reply   Quote ClaireAJ Quote  
Joined: 04/6/2021

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thank you. I've found a trailer under 450kg so that is alright. My car only has two people in it and I travel fairly light or can. My weights are, 1550 GVW, 2000 TRAIN, 900 FRONT AND 790 REAR. Max loading is 534 and minimum kerb is 976. If that helps with any more info. Thanks


04/6/2021 at 1:15pm
 Location: London
 Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
View Monty15's Profile View Profile   Reply to Monty15 Reply   Quote Monty15 Quote  
Joined: 17/9/2015

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2335

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 1  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 6
Site Nights 2018: 0

The 450Kg figure is the maximum weight of a trailer you can tow, your car will have a separate figure for how much you can load it (in addition to trailer weight).

There is also what is known as the 'Gross Train Weight' which is a combination of total car weight and trailer weight, this may well be less than the combined permitted maximums of car and trailer weights!

To be honest, with regard to towing limits/weights etc., it's all a bit of a dogs dinner, and very confusing to many a towing veteran let alone newbies. The information is all there, but spread around and needing a little 'interpretation' before you can get a definitive figure, luckily for you, you have light car and light potential trailer, so you don't need to consider the limitations on what your driving license permits as you will fall well within the threshold figures and there is no need to add to your confusion by discussing those in detail.

As far as a trailer is concerned, the critical figure you are looking for on a trailer is its MTPLM (MTPLM stands for Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass), that cannot exceed the towing capacity of your car. Now I'm no expert on trailer tents, and others will no doubt come along and offer more experienced advice, but 450Kg looks a little on the light side for a trailer tent, so you may not have much choice on what you could tow. The manufacturer designated 450kg is both the legal limit and the limit for which you car can actually tow AND brake (you risk fines if caught exceeding, and usual for car insurance to be null and void too, which will be another fine!).

The tow/train/loading figures for your car will usually be on a sticker/plate on one of the door frames, and in Citroen's documentation, max tow weight will also be on V5 registration document, do not rely entirely on anything you find published on the internet, as this figures will be very specific to your car model, engine, trim spec and year, the info on the internet is often taken from non-UK spec cars and differs. Each manufacture seems to display the info slightly differently, but here's a guide to how to read and what it means:
https://www.towbarexpress.co.uk/maximum-towing-weight/

Anything not clear, just ask, always someone willing to advise.


04/6/2021 at 1:39pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by ClaireAJ on 04/6/2021
Thank you. I've found a trailer under 450kg so that is alright. My car only has two people in it and I travel fairly light or can. My weights are, 1550 GVW, 2000 TRAIN, 900 FRONT AND 790 REAR. Max loading is 534 and minimum kerb is 976. If that helps with any more info. Thanks



Make sure that 450kg is not the unladen weight of the trailer. Monty15 has it right, it is the laden weight (MTPLM) that counts. It is all a bit of a minefield, especially if you are unfamiliar with trailer towing. The rules are very confusing.



-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


Advertisement



05/6/2021 at 8:14am
 Location: south derbyshire
 Outfit: campmaster air trailer tent
View Graham T's Profile View Profile   Reply to Graham T Reply   Quote Graham T Quote  
Joined: 02/11/2019

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   90

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 4
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Have a look on camperlands website they give the weight of the trailer tents they sell I have a campmaster air trailer tent it weighs just 200kgs without my own personal kit. I think the camplet trailer tents weigh about 500kgs.


via mobile 05/6/2021 at 8:43am
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View ClaireAJ's Profile View Profile   Reply to ClaireAJ Reply   Quote ClaireAJ Quote  
Joined: 04/6/2021

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thank you. It is a folding camper, not an empty trailer.   So if I can tow a 450kg trailer tent I'm fine. If my car is 976kg, load weight of less than 534kg send a 450kg trailer tent, I come in at 1950kg which my Vin plate gives as max train weight On the second line on the rows of numbers. I've been up all night Googling. Thank you for your help.


05/6/2021 at 11:26am
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by ClaireAJ on 05/6/2021
Thank you. It is a folding camper, not an empty trailer.   So if I can tow a 450kg trailer tent I'm fine. If my car is 976kg, load weight of less than 534kg send a 450kg trailer tent, I come in at 1950kg which my Vin plate gives as max train weight On the second line on the rows of numbers. I've been up all night Googling. Thank you for your help.



Please do make sure though that the MTPLM of the trailer is 450kg or less though, not the unladen weight. That is a legal requirement and will invalidate your insurance if you exceed it. A trailer having an unladen weight of 450kg may have a manufacturer's MTPLM of 600kg. You could not tow that with your car even if you put nothing else in the trailer.

You are right about the train weight, that is fine.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


05/6/2021 at 6:39pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
View navver's Profile View Profile   Reply to navver Reply   Quote navver Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4664

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Have a look at the Riva or Dandy Dart folding camper. These have a MTPLM of 500kg simply because the suspension units are 500kg but they are considerably lighter, especially the older ones with aluminium bed trays not steel as on the post 2003 models. The ages use different colour. Dark blue/white is post 3004 so will be heavier and are listed as 350kg ex works. Light blue/white brown or brown/white will be earlier and lighter.

Very importantly they are all braked which will be much safer than an unbraked.

http://www.rivadandysales.co.uk/

Look under our campers for a spec listing weights etc and campers for sale showing what's available and lots of pictures etc. Ring Ian at Riva Leisur for any help.


05/6/2021 at 6:46pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by navver on 05/6/2021
Have a look at the Riva or Dandy Dart folding camper. These have a MTPLM of 500kg simply because the suspension units are 500kg but they are considerably lighter, especially the older ones with aluminium bed trays not steel as on the post 2003 models. The ages use different colour. Dark blue/white is post 3004 so will be heavier and are listed as 350kg ex works. Light blue/white brown or brown/white will be earlier and lighter.

Very importantly they are all braked which will be much safer than an unbraked.

http://www.rivadandysales.co.uk/

Look under our campers for a spec listing weights etc and campers for sale showing what's available and lots of pictures etc. Ring Ian at Riva Leisur for any help.



Surely a folding camper with a MTPLM of 500kg would be illegal to tow with a car having a maximum towing weight of 450kg though?


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


Advertisement



via mobile 05/6/2021 at 7:47pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View ClaireAJ's Profile View Profile   Reply to ClaireAJ Reply   Quote ClaireAJ Quote  
Joined: 04/6/2021

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I won't buy anything greater than 450kg, providing this is the complete weight of the trailer plus its contents that are fitted with it as this is all I can tow. All my equipment and clothes will have to he minimum which they will be and at least there will only be two of us in the car.


05/6/2021 at 8:51pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by ClaireAJ on 05/6/2021
I won't buy anything greater than 450kg, providing this is the complete weight of the trailer plus its contents that are fitted with it as this is all I can tow. All my equipment and clothes will have to he minimum which they will be and at least there will only be two of us in the car.



It is the rated weight from the manufacturer that matters, not the actual weight. If it is rated at less than 450kg MTPLM, then it is fine.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


06/6/2021 at 8:07pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
View navver's Profile View Profile   Reply to navver Reply   Quote navver Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4664

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

MTPLM is a not to be exceeded weight for the trailer to be legal but actual loaded weight is not to be exceeded for tow weight.

You could simply downgrade the 500kg MTPLM to 450kg by a plate change. Dandy quoted 500kg because it used 500kg suspension units and very few cars would be too small to tow that. The 500kg applied to the Dart, Delta and Designer with ex works weights Dart 350, Designer 395kg Delta 275kg.

Note that the weight for Delta is for an earlier version (light blue and white with aluminium beds) and the Dart is the later version (dark blue and white with steel beds). So the earlier Dart should be less than 275kg ex works which gives you at least 175kg payload.

The three are all the same length but the body widths are different.
Dart 122cm, Delta 147cm, Designer 188cm.



In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














4982 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder