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Just a quick question... When someone with a "new" licence (after 1st Jan '97) wants to pass the "heavier" test (B+E, I believe). How do they practice? Stick "L" plates on the caravan & set off ? Or do you have to turn up for a test never having towed before?? Does a full car licence act as a provisional for the higher category?

I'm only asking as looking at caravan weights going up & up-an average new caravan seems to weigh around 1500 kg fully loaded so would require a tow car with a kerbweight around 1800 kg to keep to the 85% guide (yes I know it's only a guide). Presumably with a kerb weight of 1800 the MAM of the tow car would be around 2300 kg so this would give a combined mass (3800 kg) in excess of the 3500 kg limit for a "new" licence.Does this mean the laws will kill off caravanning or will caravans have to become lighter again?? Any ideas, suggestions or even corrections to how I have read the limit welcome!!!!!

See you all soon, Bernard!

A young friend, checked with the police station cos she wanted to tow a horsebox & she was told not only did she have to stick at the 3.5 ton gtw, but also the box/trailer couldnt exceed 750kgs. including the horse of course.

If the copper was right theres not many vans around & no new ones that i know of except the microlites that u could tow legally

Your full license gives you provisional entitlement for b+e so technically, yes stick L plates on and have a "qualified" driver next to you - just like learning to drive a car.  Not sure what the insurance company would say though but it is stated on the license that you have provisional entitlement.

dionea - The copper was wrong if it's a braked trailer but i don't know if horseboxes are braked or not.

Leanne

The copper was wrong. All trailers with a max weight over 750 Kgs have to be braked.

If the trailer is only up to 750 Kgs then the trainweight can be up to 4250 Kgs i.e. vehicle of up to 3500 Kgs + trailer up to 750 Kgs. But if trailer is heavier then combined train weight can only be up to 3500 Kgs.

If your outfit is within these weights the you can practise towing it without L plates but if it is over then stick L plates on and take a driver who has b + E entitlement with you.

To take the B + E test the trailer has to be of a certain size - details are on the DSA website here

may help....

Driving Licences
A full (not provisional) driving licence is required to tow a caravan. From 1 January 1997, new category B (generally held as 'normal' car entitlement) vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kg Maximum Authorised Mass allowing a combined weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM OR a trailer (for example a tourer) over 750kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM. This would mean that many drivers who possess only a category B on their licence would be able to tow a caravan provided it was not heavier than their car, and that car and caravan combined, does not weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.
New drivers of outfits over these limits must take a category B + E test.
Further information from: Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA) 
www.dvla.gov.uk

Took me a while to figure it all out when i started vanning this year, but i agree with bordercaz,

Its a good question though , one I was tring to figure an answer for, although with carefull looking, it would be one hell of a caravan to max it out

Would not really need to be a big van- combined MAM of 3500 kg aint that much-remember that a mid range Swift group 'van has a Max weight of around 1550 kg so that-combined with a tow car big enough to pull it-remember that we are talking MAM & not kerbweight, you don't have to actually be up to the weight limit, it's just the plated weights that count here -  would almost certainly be over 3500 kg combined & as the'van is over 750 kg, that is the limit, (3500 kg) you would need a B+E licence. So if you are under 26 you need to take the extra test!!!

See you all soon, Bernard... (disguised as June)

P.S. Not too worried just yet -off to CC&C Windermere for a couple of nights Tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!

So if you are under 26 you need to take the extra test!!!

Yes, and any older drivers who have passed since 1/1/97.

Also one to watch is when you re-apply for your licence at age 70 - if you don't specify that you want to keep what they call your grandfather rights (which means the right to keep the categories which were on your licence before 1/1/97 - you don't have to be a grandfather to have them!) they will automatically re-issue the licence with only the new categories on.

I understand this has caught out a few older caravanners.

I don't think the significance of it has hit the caravan manufacturers yet because younger caravanners tend to buy older caravans which are lighter anyway, plus many only move on to 'vans in later years having tented in their younger days.

But it will happen, and then they will have to re-think their "bigger and heavier is better" attitude. Or they will lose out to importers who produce lighter caravans.

Caz, just to double check here as I am being thick tonight. I passed my test in 1992 so I am okay towing whatever combination I like (20 million lottery jackpot tomorrow you know ) and I can still drive a rigid up to 7.5 tonne's on my license.

where would we be without you hon

Yes Richard you have no problems regarding the towing laws. You will be towing at a very comfortable 78% and well within the beamers maximum towing limit. 

Don't forget the other important towing criteria though such as noseweights, tyre pressures to both van and car and loading the van evenly and as near to the floor and above the axle if possible as you can and you'll be fine.