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I am sure we all do Christina.

You will soon find your own ways I am sure.  Sorry you had to suffer the nonsence but glad you were able to take in good spirit.  There is actualy a lot of good advice in there for anyone able to unravel it from the background noise.

Hope you come back and let us know how it went.

All the best.  :)

Steven

Quote: Originally posted by LarryG on 24/4/2008

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rexgrant,

I think most members of this board will support me in saying that you too have crossed the line and "doth protest too much". Causes me to wonder what your personal or financial relationship is to Rob Orr or Delta pegs?

And thank you for further demonstrating my premise from my very earliest post on this thread that only subjective and emotional support has been provided for this product. You should be ashamed for suggesting to a novice that their tent or holiday might be ruined if they don't use Delta pegs. Playing off of fear to promote a product. What rubbish.

Rob Orr maintains several web sites in addition to what he posts on this board. Explain to me:

1. Why are the Delta specifications not consistently quoted in all places? If Rob Orr is an expert in his product he should know his product facts dead cold. What's a few grams here and there?

2. Why are the specifications like weight-to-strength ratio of the same product listed differently in 3 or more places? 1600, 1700? does it matter much?

3. Why are specifications like the weight-to-strength ratio used to imply load rating? This gives some indication of performance.

4. Why are references made to certain alleged product specifications when those same products are not listed or offered for sale anywhere? How is one to know if such products actually exist? Ask the UK government who used them in Iraq. I said I don't have the time to make them and they are expensive.

5. Why are there references made to various testing that has been done and these test reports are not made available for download and inspection? I gave the results and the companys involved in the testing. Do campers really need to know the specific details? Maybe, if you're obsessive.

6. Why are there references made to how allegedly superior a Delta peg is with no objective data provided to demonstrate how competitive products were found to perform under like conditions? One can not honestly claim a product is superior unless they can objectively prove a competitive product is somehow inferior. I claim that Delta pegs are more effective in soft to hard ground than any other peg on the market (for similar size and more) simply by physical testing. Prove me wrong.

7. Why are there references made to Delta winning awards when there are no such awards listed or mentioned on the Delta web sites? Why should I bleat about the £10,000 pounds we won ? It went straight into the business. Plymouth University don't give that kind of cash away for nothing (although you would probably prove them wrong). 

Obviously, I could go on and get deeper and act some really tough questions related to physics and engineering. If it gets too tough, I'll have to ask Clive who travels the world lecturing on Civil Engineering. You might know him, actually. But I trust my point has been made that all of the inconsistencies and lack of objective data only causes me to question claims supported subjectively and emotionally. I don't believe that I am alone in this feeling.

The fact is both you and Rob Orr have blasted me repeatedly (don't think so) and I have never made a single derogatory comment about the Delta product(just implied it). Yes, I have asked some tough questions. But they were fair questions, the answers to which would have been beneficial to a lot of readers of this board. Plus the answers would have given ample opportunity to promote the positive aspects, benefits, or attributes of Delta. Instead of answering these questions with objective facts a choice was made to be evasive and inconsistent. You should both give yourself a good thrashing( Rex, your place or mine?) for a lost opportunity to build product confidence because instead all you did was plant seeds of worry among those who care enough to ask questions.

Both of you have made repeated, unwarranted assumptions based upon what I did post and from those assumptions unfairly accused me of quite a lot. I wonder what motivates you to be quite so nasty?

Frankly, this has become a textbook case of how not to promote, market, or sell a product.

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Well, you've won Larry because I've lost the will to carry on and there's no way I can argue with a man who has a brain the size of a planet. A man who can prove professors wrong and who has been such a success throughout his life that the only enjoyment left is arguing about tent pegs.
I am a normal working class person like a lot of others on here. I just happen to have come up with a good idea. I don't harp on about my product, I just try to answer questions.

I won't be posting again , so feel free to run me down all you like.

I quite agree with you Alan, i'm seriously considering offering no more advice on here unless i have conducted a full risk assessment on the possible outcome of said advice and provided at least three publications by independant experts in the subject field, (hard copies available on request for a nominal fee), i of course will try to source public liability insurance should any of the risk assessed, independantly tested advice lead to other campers coming to grief after heeding said advice

Sorry it got like this Rob.  Hope it feels better in the morning.

All the best

Steven