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I bought a 2006 Bear Lake from Blacks in January but only got chance to pitch it today for the first time as the garden was finally dry enough. I know Blacks state that you have 90 days to return an item so I'm not too worried yet, but I'd like some opinions please:

• My groundsheet zips seem to be different lengths to the flysheet. The flysheet has an extra 4 inches left of each front zip when done right up and as this is where the door closes I don't think my door will be closed properly when I zip up. The other zips had a little slack too - 1 or 2 inches each.
• My front door was pulling far too high and was VERY tight to close - I think it would damage the tent in the long term. I tried to seperate the front pole legs but whilst the strap wasn't taught between the ring & pins, I couldn't spread them any wider - I think it is because my ground sheet is too small that I couldn't get them wide enough to remove the excess tension.
• My flysheet has what looks like a stray needle hole in it at the back in the centre of the tent. It is in the black fabric strip a couple of inches above the flysheet zip. I can clearly see light coming through the pin hole. My opinion is this is enough to cause a leak and so reject the flysheet - opinions please?

So it appears that I got a non-matching flysheet and groundsheet but from what I read here I got the opposite to a number of other people - I wonder if there were batches of different length zips and as the flysheet and groundsheet are shipped in different bags (goundsheet with the poles) they are getting mixed up? Possibly they even changed the design slightly to reduce strain on the front door zips?

Anyway can anyone confirm that these three items are known faults and whether they justify returning the tent?

It looks like I have again fallen victim to the 2006 Outwell Problems - I'm now starting to get a little fed up of them to be honest.

Whilst this is a lovely tent it is so heavy and the poles are awkward to insert all in one (unlike the montana in 3 sections) that my wife wants to ask for a refund rather than an exchange and look for a non-canvas model instead. DOH !

Steve

Take it back

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Brainhertz (clique of 1)

Quote: Originally posted by BrummyGit on 11/3/2007

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And to cap it all the guy lines were not pre-attached despite the Blacks web site stating otherwise - it's outrageous expecting people to tie their own on a Premium tent

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I know - I love the Bear, but she now thinks it is too heavy  It is a great tent and generally the quality is superb (other than the faults). It has better curtains than my house!

If it had been a perfect one then she'd have had no get out and we'd have been over the moon with the tent. But now she has a get out of jail card I suspect I will have to bow to her better judgement.

I think we are heading over to the NEC next weekend to have a look at the displays, and we'll make a final decision then. I still love the idea of the Vermont XL but I'm afraid it's just too big for a lot of pitches as it is nearly a metre longer than our Monty 12 which only just squeezes onto some pitches.

I think the Indiana 6 or 8 is looking good at the moment - if it had SIG and side doors on both sides anyway.

I'm pleased that I took photos of the faults on my tent so I can take the pics in to Blacks to avoid any arguments.

Cheers

The Bear went back to Blacks today

I have to say that Blacks were really good about it - I went in armed with photos of the zips and hole and they didn't argue. Happily gave me a full refund.

You know you've got me worried now, don't you BrummyGit.......

What do you plan to get, instead of the Bear Lake?

Good question - I don't know.

I liked the Bear, but my wife though it was cumbersome to erect. It is very heavy in its bags and the poles are all in one unlike the Montana 3 sections so feeding through the sleeves is a real pain. Saying that it was up in no time, but I think we would want to leave the groundsheet on when we pack it away so I don't think it would fit in it's bag like that.

It was the faults that really put us off - 2006 was a bad year for Outwell, and our zip problems were a common/known problem with them.

So we are off to the NEC on Saturday to have a good look at the tent displays and we will decide from there. At the moment it could be a Vermont XL (very nice concept, not seen one), a 2007 Bear Lake, Vango Vail, Vango Breckenridge, or maybe stick with our Monty 12 for a little longer. I also want to see how the 2007 Outwell tents turn out - if they start with a repeat of the 2006 issues I'll jump ship to another manufacturer even though I'd rather not.

Ho hum

I originally wanted a Monty 6 for 2007 but as we have 3 kids it would have meant all of us sleeping with the centre divider down and spanning the seam between the pods. That was one of the main reasons we went for the Bear Lake as it offered 2+4 instead of 3+3 bedrooms and also had a vertical front door.

Now I don't know what we'll end up with so Saturday at the NEC could be interesting.

I hope your Monty turns out to be 100% for your peace of mind, and also as I'm waiting to hear how others are getting on with 2007 Outwells as it will influence my decision.

Quote: Originally posted by Liddenham on 13/3/2007

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You know you've got me worried now, don't you BrummyGit.......

What do you plan to get, instead of the Bear Lake?

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The decision is made.

We spent 2 hours walking between the various tents at the NEC today and it panned out as follows:

• Bear Lake - a great high quality tent but my wife was put off by the groundsheet zip problems and weight/bulk of the packed tent. The bedroom layout was not ideal for us.
• Nebraska XL - we loved the bedrooms (unlike the XXL) which were about right for us and kept kids seperate from parents. We also liked to relatively compact size for a "large" category tent. We thought the porch was not big enough for cooking and 5 eating in. We were concerned that pitching might be a pain. Add that to the 2006 horror stories we decided against this tent.
• Vermont L - we loved this tent. My wife loved the wardrobe and we thought it was a great tent, but not quite enough sleeping space for all 5 on air beds.
• Vermont XL - again we loved this as we did with the L. Enough bedroom space although not our first choice of layout but very spacious living area even with the porch in place would be ideal for sitting in during bad weather evenings when we want to be shut away from the bad weather, The porch is an incredible size - we will use it as a dining kitchen - dining area on one side and cooking on the other, and in bad weather being fully enclosed will be a huge bonus. The front doors are superbly flexible and on a good sized pitch this is an incredible tent. Our only reservation is the sheer size of the tent which is huge. Just under 5m wide should be no issue for pitches that are also geared up for caravan and awning, but the length of 7.7metres is very long. We usually use a day tent which will not be used with the Vermont (I reckon we'd need planning permission anyway) so the width is not the issue - just the length.

We ended up buying the Vermont XL as they were doing a great deal today. We are hoping that our existing bookings for this year can accomodate this tent - time will tell.

So a tent which is nearly as heavy as the Bear but hopefully the wheeled bag will help there and the poles will be more compact.

Quote: Originally posted by BrummyGit on 17/3/2007

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Quote: Originally posted by Liddenham on 13/3/2007

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You know you've got me worried now, don't you BrummyGit.......

What do you plan to get, instead of the Bear Lake?

---

The decision is made.

We spent 2 hours walking between the various tents at the NEC today and it panned out as follows:

• Bear Lake - a great high quality tent but my wife was put off by the groundsheet zip problems and weight/bulk of the packed tent. The bedroom layout was not ideal for us.
• Nebraska XL - we loved the bedrooms (unlike the XXL) which were about right for us and kept kids seperate from parents. We also liked to relatively compact size for a "large" category tent. We thought the porch was not big enough for cooking and 5 eating in. We were concerned that pitching might be a pain. Add that to the 2006 horror stories we decided against this tent.
• Vermont L - we loved this tent. My wife loved the wardrobe and we thought it was a great tent, but not quite enough sleeping space for all 5 on air beds.
• Vermont XL - again we loved this as we did with the L. Enough bedroom space although not our first choice of layout but very spacious living area even with the porch in place would be ideal for sitting in during bad weather evenings when we want to be shut away from the bad weather, The porch is an incredible size - we will use it as a dining kitchen - dining area on one side and cooking on the other, and in bad weather being fully enclosed will be a huge bonus. The front doors are superbly flexible and on a good sized pitch this is an incredible tent. Our only reservation is the sheer size of the tent which is huge. Just under 5m wide should be no issue for pitches that are also geared up for caravan and awning, but the length of 7.7metres is very long. We usually use a day tent which will not be used with the Vermont (I reckon we'd need planning permission anyway) so the width is not the issue - just the length.

We ended up buying the Vermont XL as they were doing a great deal today. We are hoping that our existing bookings for this year can accomodate this tent - time will tell.

So a tent which is nearly as heavy as the Bear but hopefully the wheeled bag will help there and the poles will be more compact.

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Subsequent to this thread, we went to check out the Bear Lake door zips, prior to pitching ours. We visited displays at two camping retailers and both Bear Lakes looked excellent....until we tried to zip up the front door! Neither would do up and there was a gap of around an inch and a half on one! We considered if it could be remedied by pushing the legs together, to close the gap, but it seemed that would just lift the height of the doorway and so misalign the zip.

We decided not to risk it, so ours went back unopened.

So, anyone who is viewing the Bear Lake, do try to close the front door (which is usually unzipped on display tents, obviously) and see what you think. We suspected it was a design fault, due to the straight / very taut front on this tent (something we had previously considered a  plus).

We decided to stick with Cabanon but, if I was going for one of the Lakes, it would probably have to be the Norfolk now because of the sloping front, which means more fabric adjustment (despite the sloping front / rain issues, which have been identified on these boards).

What do other people think?