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Subject Topic: caradad/wizard - please help Post Reply Post New Topic
04/7/2007 at 1:31pm
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Dear Fixit people,

I've already had some great advice from Wizard on my caravan, but have now got sucked into believing I can fix all of my caravan's damp problems instead of buying a new one, mainly because of Caradad's website, which happens to feature exactly the repair I need to do on exactly the same make and model caravan.  So I've run out of excuses now... But unlike Caradad, I'm not an ex-boat builder and I can just about wield a jigsaw, drill and mastic gun.  My husband wouldn't even know what a mastic gun was, so I'm on my own here... Anyway, Caradad - thanks so much - I now know what's underneath the fablon covered surface of the front end of my fleetwood garland, but there's some bits I'd like more information on before ripping the 'van to bits:

1.  You say you put on a layer of insulation stuff, but did you effectively cover the entire new wooden frame? What did you stick it with?  Is it like that stuff that you put down the back of radiators to reflect the heat into the room?

2.  I can't tell from the pictures how you attached the new wood to the top part of the windows or how much wood you replaced up the top.  How did you do it?

3.  The trickiest bit for me I think will be making the joints on the wood frame and getting it to fit just right.  I suppose I could just get in a carpenter to do that bit if I bottle?  Or any tips for making a neat joint?  What sort of tools/chisels do you use to get a snug, accurate fit?

4.  When the 'van was made, it looks like the wooden frame was stapled to the abs window surround - you can see the staples when you lift the rubbers.  Did you do that when you re-fitted the wooden frame?  If not, did you bond it in another way?  Glue/clamps?  If so, what glue?  Or did you glue and staple?

5.  You used mastic roll when re-fitting the rubbers, but on Wizard's advice, I've just done an 'it'll-do-for-now' quick fix on all my windows by running a bead of sikaflex under the rubbers to see me through my two impending summer breaks (After a rainy week in Norfolk I noticed a damp halo on the wallboard surrounding the bathroom window and then on checking all the windows, discovered the mastic was completely dry and crumbly - but the 'van is stored under cover when not in use, so it hasn't yet seemed to cause a problem in general - the front end problem is as much to do with an unnoticed split in the abs as the dodgy window seals I suspect).  Anyway, I was very impressed with sikaflex's bonding properties, especially since it was a rush job and the only preparation I gave the windows was to force a meths-soaked rag as far as I could under the rubbers to give them a quick clean-up.  Any thoughts on which is best - sikaflex or roll mastic?  Sikaflex is bound to make more of a mess, but if it's adhesive qualities are superior and if it will last (flexibly) longer, then I think I'd put up with going through 100 rags and endless bottles of meths to clear it all up...

6. However, having done a temporary sikaflex job, am I in for a complete nightmare when I try and get the rubbers off in preparation for doing a proper job?

7.  Since Caradad has exactly the same caravan as mine, even down to the year, can I just ask if you only found damp at the front?  The rubbers had so little adhesion on any of the windows that I could force most of them up and check to make sure the wood was dry before doing my temporary repair (as I say, undercover storage has probably helped there).  And it always comes up negative for damp on servicing, so I'm hoping I've only got a problem at the front.  I'll take Wizard's advice at some point and invest in a damp meter, but thought I'd find out from Caradad if he's discovered any other damp patches on his Garland?

8.  If my masochistic tendencies get the better of me, I will go round and do a re-seal on all bits and was up the ladder checking on the awning rails when I had a look at the roof-vents.  I couldn't possibly reach the front one from the side of the van - is it safe to crawl on the roof?  Or will I damage it?  It seems to flex a little to the touch so I'm a bit worried about clambering over it (is that flexing normal by the way?  I've seen other newer vans seem to do it so have always assumed it is).  I'm not all that big, but really don't know if it's a good idea to wander over the roof.  If not, how else do people access the roof bits?

9.  By the way - you said you also re-tensioned the blinds?  How?!  I've only got flyscreens in my blind assembly, but does the same process apply to them?  And can I get blinds to fit into the plastic assembly bits if I want?  Are they easy to fit/possible to get hold of?  Do they make a significant difference, thermally?

I'm sure I'll have a million other questions come September, when I'm back from hols and started peeling things away, but if I can get some more advice about this lot in the meantime, I'd be eternally grateful.

Thanks to Wizard once again for the advice I've had so far.

Gail



04/7/2007 at 6:14pm
 Location: Scotland
 Outfit: Mondeo 2.0Auto 1994 Fleetwood Garland
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Gail.......wow what a message!  .....I am just off out at the moment, but I will get back to you later......tomorrow.....etc

Don't rush into anything too quickly.....take your time and plan the job.

 

 



04/7/2007 at 9:46pm
 Location: Bristol
 Outfit: Lunar Conquest 544 a
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Hi Gail , i'll hand over to Caradad on most this one , but here's a bit of info for you .

(5) I'd be tempted to use Sikaflex 512 Caravan sealant for the window seals or a good polyurethane sealant , Stixall has been mentioned see this post
Sealants & Rubber? .

(6) Probably , you should find the seals are pretty well stuck , and removing mastic / sealant from the seals is always fairly difficult , an easy way around this would be to buy new seals . If removing the sealant from the seals is the way your going , then only do one window seal at a time .

atb

Wizard 



05/7/2007 at 8:36pm
 Location: Scotland
 Outfit: Mondeo 2.0Auto 1994 Fleetwood Garland
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Gail,

Sorry that I did not get back sooner, I spotted your post just as I was about to go out, but here goes.......

It is great to see that another Garland is to be saved, pity that Fleetwood don't give a 14 year warranty! and we really should reseal at about 5 year intervals, not 13 or 14 years.

First, believe in yourself.....you cant do if you dont try!!  Take lots of photos before you start and at every stage of the task, it will help you to remember how everything goes back together. 

1.  The insulation is a thermal board that you can get cheaply from a builders merchant.  It is 25mm thk and has a "tin foil" backing to reflect heat.  You can just about see it in the photo below.......399

The pink stuff is original, the silver is replacement.  It fits in between the wood which is also 25mm thick, and is cut to fit tight so is not glued in at all, it is just a tight fit.......Tip.....cut slightly oversize and give a quick rub with an electric sander (wear dust mask) Try in and if still tight rub some more off, until you get a perfect fit.  It does not take much so go easy.  I filled all the gaps on the front, some of the small  ones had no insulation originally.

2. You can see on the pohoto above, that there is some light coloured thin wood.....that is all original, the darker wider greenish stuff is new.  It is pressure treated wood from B&Q which is exactly 25mm thk.  The planed smooth veriety starts at 25 but by the time it  goes through the planer, it is down to 22 or 18 mm, so is no good here.  You need the maintain the thickness of the sandwich for the window rubbers to fit back in.  I cut off the old wood and left a 2" stub to fix the new wood to.  (see the image on my website just before the rainbow one!)

I glued the new wood to the old with builders adhesive (£2 from B&Q) and if you look carefully at the image below, you can just about see the screw.

257

Originally the old wood was much narrower, and had a 2" wide strip of insulation between the two vertival pieces on each pillar.  I used one wide piece of wood just to "beef it up" for the window catches.  Be aware that this adds a little weight to the front of the caravan.  Notice also above the original pink insulation is in place, but the new stuff is not in the gap above yet.

3. Some carpentry skills are reqiored here.....go to the library and get a good woodwork book.  I have used halving joints here.....albeit some of the bottom ones are at a funny angle.  Take your time, be patient, use some spare wood first to try a dummy run at cutting a joint.  The most important thing here is sharp tools.  If you learn to sharpen properly you will be half way there and remember.......sharp tools cut wood......blunt ones slip off and cut fingers, so be careful.

4. There are indeed staples round the window aperture.  I used a nail gun that I had lying about, with 25mm nails.  This goes through the plastic easily because it is quick, but a normal hammer and nails will probably split the plastic.

5. I found mastic roll to be perfectly good, and the front of my 'van is now dry as a bone, despite the UK's recent dampness problem! The trick is to fit it proiperly.  Buy the 32mm wide stuff and remember that it needs to go between the plastic and the rubber window seal on the front of the van.  See the first photo on section 4 of my site.  Sikaflex is great stuff, I used to use it on boats, but the roll mastic is less messy, and easy to fit.....it is much sheaper too. I got a roll from a dealer's worksnop for £6, that did the whole job with some to spare.  I favour the roll......but only if it is fitted properly.  If it is just put round the wooden frame then the rubber applied, then water will get in between the ABS plastic front and the wood.....and you are back to square one.

6. Be prepared for sleepless nights the sikaflex will not be easy to remove.  I used lots of white spirit and lots of elbow grease to get the silicone mess off mine, then meths to get rid of the residue left from the white spirit.  New rubber is £7 per metre, and with postage, i reconed that it would have been £97 for the 3 windows.  I spent about 4 hours cleaning.  Wages of £25/hour aint bad so it was worth the effort, but make sure that the rubber is good.  Any sign of perishing then bin it and replace. ( but measure the old stuff before binning it.  It will help with the ordering of the new stuff!

7. The front is the only place with a problem, although some vans have been known to have damp problems under the water heater vent, and there is a condensation problem at the fixed side window.  Mop it up or it will soak down through the joint in the rubber seal and you may get a small spongy patch under the window.

8. I would not go on the roof, never had to, but I would guess that you could roll out a strip of carpet (to protect the paint) then lay on a scaffold board or two but they must go all the way from one side to the other and be supported by the side walls.  (someone is bound to come in on this and tell me I am wrong!)

9. I set about the adjusting screw with an electric drill!  When the blinds are off, there is a screw on the  end that needs a half turn, then it "pops" out It can be screwed about 20 turns, then pressed back in.  All tensioned and ready to go!  The flyscreen ones are the same. 397

I don't know if thet are available as extras, but you might be able to swap the mesh for blackout blinds.  It is worth a look on the web to see if you can get the stuff.  It certainly keeps out 'van cosy, but more to the point keeps the sun out a 5am!

Your bonus tip on blinds is below!

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=31&TopicID=113108&PagePosition=1&showActive=10&ReturnPage=Active

If you have a million questions later, post them here.  I will keep a look out for them, as I am sure will Wizard, and all the others at the I fixed it club will too.

Keep lots of photos, and someday we might be reading your damp repair website!

Good luck!



Post last edited on 05/07/2007 21:27:24


06/7/2007 at 12:43pm
 Location: northwest
 Outfit: Abbey Cachet
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Good luck with your project Gail and glad to know that another woman is having a go, I repaired a damp van I had several years ago before wizard and caradad were on hand to help. There was no information on the internet whatsoever when I started mine. I learnt as I went along, making mistakes along the way, but nothing too costly. I went onto to have many happy holidays in my reborn van even venturing to France in her. Eventually we outgrew her and she was sold,( even made a profit) to a young family. I hope she is still providing enjoyable holidays to them. The thing to remember is to take your time and if you feel your getting tired STOP. Once again good luck and keep us all informed of your progress.

Sue



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08/7/2007 at 11:55am
 Location: Italy
 Outfit: Looking to buy
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Gail

I'm just about finishing off repairing my caravan now. I am lucky in that I did have some experience with carpentry and still have all the tools.

However, in my experience, most of the repair work is quite straightforward - just takes a long time. My advice is to do whatever you can yourself and, if you feel daunted or just dont't have the tools to do any part of the more difficult carpentry bits (and they are not that difficult :)) just call a carpenter in for half a day to do that bit and then carry on with it yourself. It shouldn't cost you that much and, since you are doing 95% of the hard work, you will still save yourself £'000.s

Good luck

Mike

 

 

 



09/7/2007 at 8:57pm
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Dear Wizard, Caradad, Mike and Sue

Once again, thanks so much for the brilliant advice and words of encouragement.  I don't know what it is - we'd been planning to buy a new caravan in a couple of years time anyway - but having read all the repair advice to be had on all your websites, repairing the one I've got really is an itch that has to be scratched...it just seems such a waste otherwise.  

I think I'll probably start in earnest after our summer holidays in Spain and the Lake District - so if I pop up with further questions come September, hopefully you'll all be on hand if a crisis looms.  Sue - glad to see I'm not the only one out there lumbered with the repair work - but frankly, not much choice with my hubby - he didn't know what sandpaper was before he met me - just as well he's good at keeping the kiddies amused...

And Caradad - what can I say - you've already been down the road before me and no doubt saved me thousands of potential mistakes along the way.

I'll keep you posted and thanks once again for the encouragement.

Gail



09/7/2007 at 10:52pm
 Location: Bristol
 Outfit: Lunar Conquest 544 a
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Hi Gail , The Fixed it Club will be here for you , when you need us .

atb

Wizard




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