Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Repairs, Servicing and Maintenance
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: Dowels for delamination Post Reply Post New Topic
19/8/2017 at 10:59am
 Location: leeds
 Outfit: elddis elusion 510 6
View richard prince's Profile View Profile   Reply to richard prince Reply   Quote richard prince Quote  
Joined: 04/5/2012

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   24

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Hi im looking at a delamination kit for my floor.i understand how to do this but there are kits with 30mm length dowels and 40mm length.which should i use.im under the belief that the dowels should be knocked in the holes through the foam and sit against the bottom ply.
Thanks in advance.

-------------
landrover discovery td5 followed by elddis elusion 510/6


19/8/2017 at 11:23am
 Location: Bolton
 Outfit: Avondale Dart 510 5
View Geoff48's Profile View Profile   Reply to Geoff48 Reply   Quote Geoff48 Quote  
Joined: 06/9/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   649

Site Reviews Total: 38
Site Reviews 2024: 2  
Site Reviews 2023: 5  
Site Reviews 2022: 4  
Site Reviews 2021: 4  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 28
Site Nights 2022: 19
Site Nights 2021: 19
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 16

I used one shot delamination kit. The dowels don't need to touch the bottom, the prime purpose is to plug the hole. I measured mine by drilling through the top floor layer, then measured the depth by pushing a skewer through to the bottom then ascertained the length of drill bit needed. I used a drill bit with a stopper to ensure I didn't drill completely through the floor. The solution will find any holes in the caravan eg gas sink holes for fridge and water heater so its best to protect the drive or other area where you are doing this job. I used cheap plastic paint/dust covers. I used a belt sander to sand down the dowel tops. Hope this helps.


19/8/2017 at 11:24am
 Location: Lichfield
 Outfit: Coachman Amara 450
View tango55's Profile View Profile   Reply to tango55 Reply   Quote tango55 Quote  
Joined: 15/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   9587

Site Reviews Total: 23
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 3
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 24
Site Nights 2018: 0

The dowels only need to be the same thickness as the top plywood floor really as they only stop the glue from escaping whilst curing. You just have to put a support under the bottom ply (under the caravan) and a weight on the top such as a battery with cellophane plastic underneath to stop it sticking to the floor when the task is completed. When I did mine I bought a length of 8mm. dowel rod from B&Q and cut them into 10mm. lenghts.


19/8/2017 at 12:49pm
 Location: leeds
 Outfit: elddis elusion 510 6
View richard prince's Profile View Profile   Reply to richard prince Reply   Quote richard prince Quote  
Joined: 04/5/2012

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   24

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Hi thanks for ur replies.i thought the dowels where also to give support and the adhesive was to hold everything together.
Ive noticed that it has been done before from underneath but a few of the dowels have come out.ive had the van 13 years and ive never done or had it done.i will be doing it from inside.i understand its the styrofoam between the ply sheets that either compress or degrade.so basically the glue just fills everything and sticks it back together.and the hole of glue under the dowel sets rock hard for support.this is my last job as ive completely rebuilt my front end and widow frame.and im just in the process off a full rear end rebuild.main supports/beams.all new framework boarding insulation.all rails.its been a big job lol

-------------
landrover discovery td5 followed by elddis elusion 510/6


19/8/2017 at 1:43pm
 Location: Bolton
 Outfit: Avondale Dart 510 5
View Geoff48's Profile View Profile   Reply to Geoff48 Reply   Quote Geoff48 Quote  
Joined: 06/9/2009

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   649

Site Reviews Total: 38
Site Reviews 2024: 2  
Site Reviews 2023: 5  
Site Reviews 2022: 4  
Site Reviews 2021: 4  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 28
Site Nights 2022: 19
Site Nights 2021: 19
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 16

Delamination repair from under the van will have been done by a repair shop. They inject the solution from under the van.
Your right in that the styrofoam becomes detached from the ply the solution you pour in from the top layer is an expanding adhesive and forms a new layer filling the voids between the styrofoam and ply and adhering to both the styrofoam and ply. I'd suggest re-dowelling where the dowels have fallen out under the van otherwise your solution will just drain through. The most time consuming thing for me was pulling the carpet up and removing the hundreds of carpet staples. I relaid the floor with vinyl. One snag I did come across was that the water pipes in my van came diagonal from the water inlet to the kitchen sink - I had incorrectly thought that these pipes would have been been run like domestic electric cables. I managed to puncture two pipes and the pipes were then relaid going around the van and not under the floor. Congratulations on the jobs done so far, not sure I would have wanted to tackle that.   


Advertisement



19/8/2017 at 1:57pm
 Location: leeds
 Outfit: elddis elusion 510 6
View richard prince's Profile View Profile   Reply to richard prince Reply   Quote richard prince Quote  
Joined: 04/5/2012

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   24

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Geoff48 on 19/8/2017
Delamination repair from under the van will have been done by a repair shop. They inject the solution from under the van.
Your right in that the styrofoam becomes detached from the ply the solution you pour in from the top layer is an expanding adhesive and forms a new layer filling the voids between the styrofoam and ply and adhering to both the styrofoam and ply. I'd suggest re-dowelling where the dowels have fallen out under the van otherwise your solution will just drain through. The most time consuming thing for me was pulling the carpet up and removing the hundreds of carpet staples. I relaid the floor with vinyl. One snag I did come across was that the water pipes in my van came diagonal from the water inlet to the kitchen sink - I had incorrectly thought that these pipes would have been been run like domestic electric cables. I managed to puncture two pipes and the pipes were then relaid going around the van and not under the floor. Congratulations on the jobs done so far, not sure I would have wanted to tackle that.   


Yes ive to check where the pipes and cables run.and i will be replugging the missing dowels first.i will be pulling the carpet up and refitting cushion floor vinyl.
Regarding other jobs ive done/doing.the front end i did 5 years ago saved me a total of £4600 and that was the cheapest quote.the rear end im doing has saved me just under £3000 and i know its been done to the best of my ability and by no means bodged or corners cut.its cost me a total of around £400 to do everything front to back with all correct matching boards and all cottect screws glues and sealants.but as for the man hours.100's....the rear end has taken me around 60 hours to strip and chase.and a further 8 hours a day for the last 2 weeks minus 3 days of bad weather.to get to where i am now.this is obvioudly where the caravan repair places get there quotes.
Thanks for your help.i might be putting a detailed blog or site on the fixed it club when ive done.


-------------
landrover discovery td5 followed by elddis elusion 510/6


23/8/2020 at 10:27am
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View knuttyman's Profile View Profile   Reply to knuttyman Reply   Quote knuttyman Quote  
Joined: 23/8/2020

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   1

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I'm about to embark on floor delamination repair and wish to express my appreciation for all those correspondents who have preceded me with their questions and replies, with particular thanks to Geoff48, Pickled Onion, tanga55, jeff jukes and too many others to mention.

There has been many comments on the depth of drilled holes and the length and size of dowels, Some say just drill through the thickness of the internal floor board, others say drill all the way to the outside board without penetrating it, some say 40mm long dowels whilst others say 10 mm long dowels. There has also been comment that the dowels strengthen the floor.

I'd like to add my comment to this discussion. I cannot see how the dowels will strengthen the floor unless they fully penetrate the insulation and are bonded to the outside floor panel. The bonding of the dowel to the internal floor panel will of course marginally increase the strength of the panel but not the floor structure. The dowel cannot effectively bond to the outside panel unless the insulation is locally cleared from the panel by ensuring the drill partially (by countersinking)or completely penetrates the panel: holes of course need to be sealed outside. Effective bonding will provide a mesh of columns of dowel bonding the outside and inside panels together thus adding rigidity and longevity to the floor. The greatest strength and longevity will be achieved if epoxy adhesive is used. Clearly 40mm long dowels are needed to accomplish this solution. Dowels of 10mm will provide greater strength than 8mm but at the cost of greater cold bridging between outer and inner panels due to reduced insulation.

What will I do? I don't know yet, I'm still undecided about whether to order epoxy or polyurethane adhesive. My caravan is 26 years old and I won't be needing it much longer so minimum effort seems appropriate, that suggests epoxy rather than polyurethane to avoid the expansion issue.

Post last edited on 23/08/2020 10:34:27

Post last edited on 23/08/2020 10:35:12


23/8/2020 at 11:40am
 Location: Lichfield
 Outfit: Coachman Amara 450
View tango55's Profile View Profile   Reply to tango55 Reply   Quote tango55 Quote  
Joined: 15/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   9587

Site Reviews Total: 23
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 3
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 24
Site Nights 2018: 0

The dowels are nothing more than a process to cover and seal the holes that were used for pouring in the glue and that's it. It's the glue itself that does the delamination repair which fills up the gaps between the upper and lower floor ply that causes the spongy floor on the upper ply. The dowels have no connection with creating greater strength in any way whatsoever.


23/8/2020 at 12:05pm
 Location: Near Alton Towers
 Outfit: Bailey Burgundy S7 H
View Pickled Onion's Profile View Profile   Reply to Pickled Onion Reply   Quote Pickled Onion Quote  
Joined: 23/2/2006

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   3042

Site Reviews Total: 11
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 2  
Site Reviews 2019: 1  
Site Reviews 2018: 1  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 5
Site Nights 2020: 9
Site Nights 2019: 8
Site Nights 2018: 1

Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 23/8/2020
The dowels are nothing more than a process to cover and seal the holes that were used for pouring in the glue and that's it. It's the glue itself that does the delamination repair which fills up the gaps between the upper and lower floor ply that causes the spongy floor on the upper ply. The dowels have no connection with creating greater strength in any way whatsoever.



Welcome to the forum knuttyman.
Sorry but I'm afraid we will have to disagree with you on this one Tango, I still believe they do have a part to play in adding to the structural integrity of the ply sandwich, especially if you use enough. The one-shot 'glue/foam' will stick to almost anything, as is apparent with any excess or spills, hence it will bond to both plys as well as the wooden dowel (if they are touching both top and bottom), therefore it must add strength to the finished repair as a whole.

Dave.

-------------
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and you can get rid of him for a whole weekend.


23/8/2020 at 4:15pm
 Location: Lichfield
 Outfit: Coachman Amara 450
View tango55's Profile View Profile   Reply to tango55 Reply   Quote tango55 Quote  
Joined: 15/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   9587

Site Reviews Total: 23
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 4  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 3
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 24
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Pickled Onion on 23/8/2020
Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 23/8/2020
The dowels are nothing more than a process to cover and seal the holes that were used for pouring in the glue and that's it. It's the glue itself that does the delamination repair which fills up the gaps between the upper and lower floor ply that causes the spongy floor on the upper ply. The dowels have no connection with creating greater strength in any way whatsoever.



Welcome to the forum knuttyman.
Sorry but I'm afraid we will have to disagree with you on this one Tango, I still believe they do have a part to play in adding to the structural integrity of the ply sandwich, especially if you use enough. The one-shot 'glue/foam' will stick to almost anything, as is apparent with any excess or spills, hence it will bond to both plys as well as the wooden dowel (if they are touching both top and bottom), therefore it must add strength to the finished repair as a whole.

Dave.



So what you are saying is that the dowels are acting as pillars between the sandwich of the upper and lower ply in which case I can understand why the dowels are used as a strengthening process as well as the bonding glue. However, I didn't do it that way, I just drilled the holes as required, applied the glue through the holes into the insulation, cut the dowels to about 6mm. long then plugged each hole. The underside was supported by the use of a lifting jack and the top floor I placed a 45mm. square paving slab with a plastic sheet underneath to avoid any excess glue sticking to it. After 2 days when it had cured, I flattened the surface of the plywood floor with sandpaper, finished the job and replaced the carpet. The delamination had been successful and kept the van another 3 years after that and never had any more issues with floor delamination whatsoever.



Advertisement



24/8/2020 at 10:06am
 Location: Near Alton Towers
 Outfit: Bailey Burgundy S7 H
View Pickled Onion's Profile View Profile   Reply to Pickled Onion Reply   Quote Pickled Onion Quote  
Joined: 23/2/2006

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   3042

Site Reviews Total: 11
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 3  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 2  
Site Reviews 2019: 1  
Site Reviews 2018: 1  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 11
Site Nights 2021: 5
Site Nights 2020: 9
Site Nights 2019: 8
Site Nights 2018: 1

That's great news Tango, two ways of doing the job.

Dave.

-------------
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and you can get rid of him for a whole weekend.



In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Repairs, Servicing and Maintenance - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














6055 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder