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 Topic: Caravan insurance note of caution
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15/3/2025 at 1:33pm
Location: Teesside
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Eeh well I thought we'd got off lightly from the blow out we had on the French motorway! Not so lightly it would seem.
Preparing the 'van for the belated first trip of this year, (delayed due to swmbo slipping on ice and spending 8 weeks in plaster!), when I noticed there was a .75" gap between the bottom of the unit housing the cooker and the side of the caravan.
Evidently the axle suffered a change of angle during the blow out and the bottom of the caravan site is now loose.
Go our friendly coachbuilder to come out and inspect it and it looks like a new axle will be needed as parts of it are now too close to the floor and going over severe bumps could well damage the caravan floor. He advised to speak to the insurers which I duly did.
He'll provide and estimate and a statement to the effect that the likely cause was the blowout. However I was surprised how interested the insurers were about the age of the tyres.
We changed them 3 years ago so they're not the originals from the 2016 van which on inspection carried a manufacture date in 2013!!
Lucky we changed them because if they'd been the original tyres the insurers would have used this as a reason not to pay the claim!
Just a note of caution caravan tyres over 5 years old could lead to claims being refused. We changed them because of the age and the small cracks in the walls discovered on the service. After we got back from France I changed both tyres again anyway because I believe tyres on an axle should match!
Hope this information is of use to someone.
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Best Regards
David
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15/3/2025 at 2:47pm
Location: London
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It certainly comes as a shock to some about these things, but been made aware of a tyre blowout being more than a simple inconvenient puncture, not too soon after I first got my own van.
One friend had his not extremely old van written off by insurers when the disintegrating tyre flailed up through the inner wheel arch and floor and wrecked the cooker, worktop and sink as a consequence of the cooker movement, as well as a lot of body damage!
Another friend had the wheel arch 'eyebrow' damaged by the failed tyre, thankfully no worse, but still body damage needing repair.
Both found themselves stranded on a busy roadside where they were VERY unhappy to be parked and felt significantly at risk!
First time I had my van serviced by a mobile fitted, excellent chap that he was, he pointed out that old tyres and hoses may appear in usable order, BUT insurers were quite likely to refuse a claim if industry guidance had not been followed on replacing by age as well as apparent fitness for use. He cited cases of his own experience where his clients had ignored his advice and got bitten on the bum by insurers declining claims!
For what it's worth, my tyres were replaced on age alone, being 6 years from manufacture and 5 years use on the van from new, on close inspection they had quite a lot of micro-cracking which indicates degradation of the rubber compound, so really due for change despite plenty of tread left. I changed a gas pigtail last year, for despite still being a few months within it's 5 year life, I kept getting wafts of gas in the locker, it had become permeable and was leaking though the walls. New hose and no more gas smells!
I invested in a Tyrepal TPMS, precisely to get early warning of tyre issues, before they went 'bang' and made things very obvious! Money well spent, and a good deal of peace of mind when on the road.
Glad you were covered and the insurers are picking up the bill - that sounds like a big bill you don't want to be coming out of your own pocket!
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15/3/2025 at 5:15pm
Location: Teesside
Outfit: Lunar Clubman SI H
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You've hit the nail on the head there Monte15! On our first 'van we had Tyron bands but not on subsequent vans. This is our 3rd van and we found tyre companies reluctant to fit or deal with Tyron Bands so we didn't have them fitted.
I have Tyrepal which we ordered directly we got back from the French trip where the blowout occurred. I also had both tyres replaced so I haven't had chance to fit the Tyrepal TPMS to the van yet.
I'll have to wait until the axle is replaced. Evidently about a month lead time to get one from ALKO and a week or so for the Coachbuilder to fit it and fix the other problems its caused, so we should be good to go by the end of April.
Estimated bill about £2300 with the axle eating up £1762 of that.
Very true what you say Monte15 you almost never change caravan tyres because they're worn its almost always because of cracks in the wall and age related issues.
Its a good thing to check the age of your tyres even if you have a new van the numbering has a week number / year and is stamped on the outside of the tyre. Our brand new 2016 van had 12/13 so week 12 of 2013 as in already 3 years old!!! Its wise to check!!
Post last edited on 15/03/2025 17:22:40
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Best Regards
David
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16/3/2025 at 6:46am
Location: Worcestershire
Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by david8858 on 15/3/2025
Eeh well I thought we'd got off lightly from the blow out we had on the French motorway! Not so lightly it would seem.
Preparing the 'van for the belated first trip of this year, (delayed due to swmbo slipping on ice and spending 8 weeks in plaster!), when I noticed there was a .75" gap between the bottom of the unit housing the cooker and the side of the caravan.
Evidently the axle suffered a change of angle during the blow out and the bottom of the caravan site is now loose.
Go our friendly coachbuilder to come out and inspect it and it looks like a new axle will be needed as parts of it are now too close to the floor and going over severe bumps could well damage the caravan floor. He advised to speak to the insurers which I duly did.
He'll provide and estimate and a statement to the effect that the likely cause was the blowout. However I was surprised how interested the insurers were about the age of the tyres.
We changed them 3 years ago so they're not the originals from the 2016 van which on inspection carried a manufacture date in 2013!!
Lucky we changed them because if they'd been the original tyres the insurers would have used this as a reason not to pay the claim!
Just a note of caution caravan tyres over 5 years old could lead to claims being refused. We changed them because of the age and the small cracks in the walls discovered on the service. After we got back from France I changed both tyres again anyway because I believe tyres on an axle should match!
Hope this information is of use to someone.
An insurance company would have an extremely hard time if it was ever challenged in court as they have no legal basis for rejecting the claim. After all you can have tyres on a car that are 20 years old and the car can still pass the MOT.
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16/3/2025 at 12:45pm
Location: London
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 16/3/2025
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An insurance company would have an extremely hard time if it was ever challenged in court as they have no legal basis for rejecting the claim. After all you can have tyres on a car that are 20 years old and the car can still pass the MOT.
Interesting point of view, perhaps a case of arguing a principle, BUT for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds or so every 5 years, do you want to risk finding yourself in court fighting an insurance company who will be quite happy to fight you until you die of old age, or go bankrupt paying the legal bills! Court case outcomes can rarely be forecast with certainty (I've had close family members who've been Magistrates, and we've discussed the ins and outs!), outcomes can hinge on minor points alone, and disregarding industry recommendations is unlikely to be regarded as anything like 'minor', the law isn't necessarily a factor, this would be a Civil case, that would be dealt with differently!
There is of course the actual physical benefits of newer tyres over old! Not long ago changed the tyres on my car, the old ones were well within legal requirements, with probably 8K plus miles of life left (that's pushing towards 2 year further driving for me) before technically approaching illegal, but showing signs of age with micro-cracking, which at 7-8 years old was not surprising. Not being one to skimp on road safety aspects of car maintenance, I decided it was time to renew, figuring I'd had my monies worth out of them! What a difference, suddenly become aware of the much superior grip of the new tyres, most noticeable was the traction, the old tyres were getting a little scrabbly trying to pull away with the van, the new ones superb. If the traction is that much noticeably better, then braking and cornering performance will also be equally better!
I think it's generally accepted that you want the caravan brakes to play their part on the road, not just as a parking brake, but for them to be effective that braking effort needs transmitting to the road, and that's going to require the best performance from the tyres too.
I'd be cautious about expecting 20 year old car tyres passing an MOT! They may pass visual inspection and tread depth, but would they still have with their now hardened compound, enough grip to get the rolling road to be able to perform the adequate braking performance tests! Good chance that may be marginal!
Somewhere a while ago, I saw some statistics of caravan tyre failures, and the evidence was there to state that older tyres had a higher fail rate than newer tyres.
Pushing the life of tyres too far is nothing other than false economy IMHO. I'm pretty tight fisted, but accept that there are times the money NEEDS spending.
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16/3/2025 at 5:58pm
Location: Teesside
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I'm a tight fisted Yorkshireman and with you on this one Monty15 - my mrs having lived up the frozen north for getting on 30 years, fair enough isn't Yorkshire yet (she'll be an incomer for another few years yet), but she does have qualifications for being a Yorkshire(person) as a) she can make a passable yorkie pud from scratch! b) she is as tight as a d*cks aspidistra in water!
Humour aside neither of us will compromise on safety, given our precious dogs are aboard so if new tyres cost a few quid and get changed early for peace of mind we'll do it.
TBF insurers look for any possible way to welch on the deal - they never seem to duck putting the premiums up, but they sure as hell do their best to avoid paying out.
In our case a couple of hundred quid for changing tyres early should result in a couple of thousand on an insurance payout that could have been costly/uncertain outcome to challenge in court.
Simples* to quote the merecats
Change the damn things early it makes sense in the long run
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David
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17/3/2025 at 8:43am
Location: Worcestershire
Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 16/3/2025
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 16/3/2025
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An insurance company would have an extremely hard time if it was ever challenged in court as they have no legal basis for rejecting the claim. After all you can have tyres on a car that are 20 years old and the car can still pass the MOT.
Interesting point of view, perhaps a case of arguing a principle, BUT for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds or so every 5 years, do you want to risk finding yourself in court fighting an insurance company who will be quite happy to fight you until you die of old age, or go bankrupt paying the legal bills! Court case outcomes can rarely be forecast with certainty (I've had close family members who've been Magistrates, and we've discussed the ins and outs!), outcomes can hinge on minor points alone, and disregarding industry recommendations is unlikely to be regarded as anything like 'minor', the law isn't necessarily a factor, this would be a Civil case, that would be dealt with differently!
Your scenario is highly unlikely as the insurance company will know that they will be on dodgy ground and will probably lose as the judge will look at the legislation and not hearsay or recommendations.
However you are correct regarding changing tyres at between 5 - 7 years as safety is paramount at all times.
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17/3/2025 at 9:15am
Location: Yorkshire
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The advise is to change at 5 years or before if damage is spotted and definitely before 7 years, its advise and good advise it isn't a law, yet.
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18/3/2025 at 8:38am
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Quote: Originally posted by Paul_B on 17/3/2025
The advise is to change at 5 years or before if damage is spotted and definitely before 7 years, its advise and good advise it isn't a law, yet.
and probably will never ever be law? When you buy a brand new caravan in many cases the tyres are already over 2- 3 years old! If stored correctly a 20 year old tyre may be just as good as one made last month.
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18/3/2025 at 9:15am
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Quote: Originally posted by Paul_B on 17/3/2025
The advise is to change at 5 years or before if damage is spotted and definitely before 7 years, its advise and good advise it isn't a law, yet.
It's certainly good advice.
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XVI yes?
As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.
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18/3/2025 at 12:19pm
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We're going to differ here Iank01, you're talking 'technicalities' in near laboratory conditions to achieve 20 year storage life, I'm talking 'practicalities' in the real world that most of us obtain and use our tyres in! I'd be cautious of rolling a vehicle out of a garage on 20 year old tyres, let alone putting it on the road, from my activities in the classic car world, I've know old tyres hold pressure when unmoved, but as soon as they've been 'rolled' even a short distance, they loose pressure, that's the integrity of the rubber failing! I'd certainly never fit them as new! How often are tyres stored in ideal conditions - stable moderate temperature, protected from atmospheric Ozone, protected from UV! Close to never in a commercial environment, and more usually in much closer to detrimental conditions in your typical tyre dealer!
When you research tyres, the anecdotal comments from non-expert users are near universal "They LOOK OK - plenty of tread, no cracks", but that takes no account of the natural and normal degradation of the rubber compound which until extreme cannot be visually assessed, but WILL be a factor in loss of grip, delamination of plies and tread, AND (over)heating as the tyre will no longer be as supple and the stiffness generates heat when rolling, that promotes failure from delamination. It's no coincidence old tyres fail more than new!
The tyre industry admits that the 5-7 year life advice is conservative, but put a 10 year limit on SAFE use! I want a safety margin, I'll be changing my tyres around the 5-7 years old regardless! The write off cost of a pair of even premium tyres changed promptly at around £45 per year of use is insignificant compared to the thousands of pounds spent on a year's caravan ownership/use costs! - it's a couple of nights pitch fees on a cheap site, or ONE night on an expensive site - my wellbeing, my dog's wellbeing, my much loved caravan, the wellbeing of innocent other road users is NOT going to be unnecessarily compromised for the equivalent of ONE NIGHT'S PITCH FEE per year!
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19/3/2025 at 7:57am
Location: Worcestershire
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The actual original post was about the insurance aspect and whether they have grounds to reject a claim because of the age of tyres especially if the tyres were not a contributing factor to the mishap. Even if it was a puncture and not a blow out.
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19/3/2025 at 1:17pm
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They would have grounds if it says on the policy that they won't cover any accident however caused if the of tyres are over a certain age etc etc.
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via mobile 16/3/2025 at 10:09am
