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11/8/2017 at 9:13am
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Quote: Originally posted by lidds0 on 09/8/2017
Quote: Originally posted by Ewen c on 09/8/2017
I did get a swatch of tencate all season fabric when I was considering a BCT. Very sturdy synthetic that felt like canvas but acts like synthetic.
All season polyester is also easier to care for than cotton canvas and lighter. Some people can't tell the difference and some refer to it as 'polycotton'.
Weight and pack size of all these alternatives is a consideration, though. Then again, the new ranges of airbeam tents with their SIGs and tubes attached are fairly hefty beasts - at least you can split the packs with most Cabanon offerings - so maybe check out pack sizes and weights of all the tents you consider.
I'd agree.
We had a Cabanon 440 (2014 model £1,200, used for one 10 day holiday by the previous owners) in all season material which was fantastic. Only the two of us but two Salukis that can take up some space. We only reverted to Karsten ( bought a hardly used outfit off the classifieds on here) because the Cabanon was getting to be a chore to put up, purely our ages (mid 50's). If I was starting out again with our kids, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Cabanon ( primarily because I doubt I would be able to afford the Karsten!) because of the spaciousness, quality and its bomb proof! We were in north Cornwall one September battling 50-60 mph winds, "snug as a bug in a rug" witnessing Outwell, Hi-Gear and a couple of bell tents twisting in dipping to the point where ours almost became an emergency shelter! Our neighbours were amazed at the stability of the Cabanon as it just didn't budge!
Incidentally, we sold the Cabanon for £1,200 but included a sun canopy we had bought in addition so not much of a loss either!
-------------
2018 & so it begins.
April - please, just one weekend!
May - Who knows....
June - Tristram, Polzeath 10 nights
August - Dartmouth Regatta 4 nights
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13/8/2017 at 9:17pm
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I've tried all season polyester tents and have to buck the trend by saying that I still found them noisier in wind than polycotton and still warmer in hot weather.
I don't mind the extra slight bulk of a cotton tent as the car has plenty of room and it's worth it. My last polycotton tent lasted over two decades! In the same time period, I went though a fair few polyester tents (I had various sized tents for different camping depending on whether I was back-packing or base camping). The problem with all polyester fabrics is that proofing is either a coating on the fabric or on individual strands and in the weave, which has to be tight to keep the water out, and the coating eventually wears to the point it starts leaking. The tight weave makes them less breathable than cotton. Two effects of this are poorer breathability than polycotton and shorter lifespan. I'm unsure if durability is improved with newer all season polyesters but I'm more than happy with time-proven polycotton.
Modern airbeam designs shouldn't be adversley affected by a few degrees change...in fact, they're not. I've tested ours and the most variation over a week of variable weather was just a few psi, with the tent able to remain rock solid even if pressures dropped to 5 psi from an initial 7 psi. In strong sunlight, pressures never exceeded 9.5psi. the beams are rated to 15 psi in factory tests. Only poorer quality designs which require air pressure relief valves are a worry. the larger the airbeam, the better. Vango have done extensive trials on just this issue and their latest polycotton designs with super-sized air beams to take the extra mass have proved very stable long term and very reliable. They also use some very well designed and made valves, so I'd hazard a guess that a lot of internet myth surrounds more modern air beam tents based on poorer quality versions and early examples.
Companies like Vango wouldn't be in business very long if they sold tents that deflated when it got cooler and burst when it got warmer! It's true with some of them that it's wise to let out some pressure at night IF you've put the tent up in very hot daytime temperatures, but since just a few pumps per beam gets beams back up to pressure if needed, it's really not an issue. With normal steel poled tents, I still regularly go round adjusting guy ropes and putting a few more psi or letting a little air out of a few beams takes no longer.
Last year, near st Davids on a campsite where it blew a hoolee, about a storm force 8, the ONLY tent left standing of all the large family type tents (mostly polyester with fibreglass poles and the odd steel framed tent) was an air beam Vango. That was one of the reasons that finally persuaded me to look into buying one myself.
Back to the OP though...imho poly cotton tents are still the best material overall. Nothing about newer all season polyesters would persuade me to buy another polyester tent unless for backpacking, and then I'd probably rather carry the extra bulk for something like a Storm Force 10 polycotton.
Post last edited on 13/08/2017 21:23:55
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14/8/2017 at 5:38am
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Quote: Originally posted by Tupik on 13/8/2017
I've tried all season polyester tents and have to buck the trend by saying that I still found them noisier in wind than polycotton and still warmer in hot weather.
I don't mind the extra slight bulk of a cotton tent as the car has plenty of room and it's worth it. My last polycotton tent lasted over two decades! In the same time period, I went though a fair few polyester tents (I had various sized tents for different camping depending on whether I was back-packing or base camping). The problem with all polyester fabrics is that proofing is either a coating on the fabric or on individual strands and in the weave, which has to be tight to keep the water out, and the coating eventually wears to the point it starts leaking. The tight weave makes them less breathable than cotton. Two effects of this are poorer breathability than polycotton and shorter lifespan. I'm unsure if durability is improved with newer all season polyesters but I'm more than happy with time-proven polycotton...
Back to the OP though...imho poly cotton tents are still the best material overall. Nothing about newer all season polyesters would persuade me to buy another polyester tent unless for backpacking, and then I'd probably rather carry the extra bulk for something like a Storm Force 10 polycotton.
Post last edited on 13/08/2017 21:23:55
I find your post a bit confusing. There is a massive difference between Tencate all-season polyester canvas and regular synthetic/polyester tent fabric and there are few tents made of this canvas, even now. Are you referring to the all-season polyester in your post, or to regular synthetic tents? Which all-season polyester tents have you used, if you don't mind saying?
You refer to 'time-proven polycotton' and say your last polycotton tent lasted 2 decades. I was under the impression that polycotton tents are more relatively new to the market than that, so maybe yours was one of the first? Would you mind saying what make and model yours was please?
I also thought the Force 10 Classic tents had cotton flysheets, rather than polycotton?
Sorry if I appear to be nit-picking but, if all-season polyester canvas had a shorter-lifespan than cotton canvas as you say, why would manufacturers (like Cabanon) choose to use it on their large tents for the rental market?
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14/8/2017 at 7:49am
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Yes, my mistake. The tent I was referring to was an HH6000 fabric (I've just checked). I've hiked 100's of miles over the years with a force 10 and whilst there's undeniably much lighter tents about these days for back-packers, I had no problems lugging the F10 about, but my background is with the infantry where we had to lug things far heavier than that tent about....try 70lbs weight over 20 miles a day plus a personal weapon and you'll not even notice a F10! These days, I do less backpacking and more base camping but I never ever had any issues with a F10. My first trip with it back in the 80's was walking the SW coast path with a mate. On that occasion, he carried the poles, I carried the tent. Yes, the F10 is cotton rather than Polycotton.
My appetite has been whetted now by the above mention of all season polyester. I had assumed, wrongly, that it was the higher 150 or above ripstop grade of polyester, but see that it may be something completely different. However, I am still interested in why some, who carry tents in a car (unless pushed for space) would rate it as "better" than Polycotton? Better in what respect if you don't mind me asking?
We have a 10 year old Cabanon Estoril as well as a newer Vango Illusion TC800XL. The Cabanon is still a fabulous tent and I rate anything they make pretty highly.
Post last edited on 14/08/2017 07:57:59
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14/8/2017 at 6:02pm
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The Estoril is a cotton canvas, not polycotton, and I totally agree that is the original, time-served canvas material. We've had a good few cotton canvas tents over the years so I know, first-hand, how good they are.
Polycotton is a much lighter-weight tent fabric and - as the name suggests - a bit of a halfway house. Not as durable or weighty or breathable as canvas but decidedly nicer to live under than conventional synthetics.
I hate synthetic tents, as personally find them too hot, too cold, too noisy, too clammy, blah-de-blah. But, the all-season polyester bears no resemblance whatsoever to this type of synthetic tent fabric. It feels, looks and acts very much like cotton canvas but is more stiff. It's lighter (making larger tents easier to handle) and easier to care for (you won't risk getting mould and mildew so quickly if you pack up wet and you can wipe it clean easily, where with cotton canvas you'd be wiping stuff into the fibres, with all season polyester it's possible to wipe stuff off). It's tough, light but equally lovely - in my experience - to live under (having had both a cotton canvas Cabanon Biscaya and a Tencate all-season polyester Cabanon Biscaya, I honestly prefer the latter. With it being lighter in weight, poles aluminium rather than the heavier steel and less bulky too. Very many people can't tell the difference.
I have to say, I don't personally care for the polyester Cabanon Biscaya (they made a blue/cream, standard polyester model, a few years back).
But, as previously mentioned, very few tents are made from all-season polyester. I think that Karsten have some in their inflatable range options now, and the Cabanon Biscaya uses it (no cotton canvas option now for this model). The older Cabanon Laguna was all-season polyester, too.
All Cabanon's rental market tents are now made from all-season polyester.
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16/8/2017 at 12:12am
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Well Vango have been in touch, and I can get my hands on the 2018 Illusion TC 500 XL from Nov, which may work well considering the changes its got for 2018. So it might be a case of watch this space considering the improvements we'll be seeing, although one of my wish lists might become an accessory in its own right, but they havent decided yet as I suspect costs maybe an issue, but its certainly a new revenue stream I've not seen offered by other tent manufacturers either, so many are missing a trick perhaps?
Whilst the 800xl is a nice size erring on a bit to big for two of us, its a lot to heat up during the winter however I end up doing it, and being able to put it up on my own is important if I can grab some wave time if the technical data looks good on a1surf.com or magicseaweed.com
The Cabanon's sound like they are made out of proper old school canvas something inbetween old army surplus bell tents and scout ridge tents. Bullet proof but the lack of windows and the shell design with slightly less usable space makes me want to see one in the flesh first.
I'll have to read up on this all season polyester as this sounds like it something new worth checking out, but I do like the touch of cloth on these polycotton tents, it seems to give me the impression there is a bit more quality there compared to the more popular nylon derivatives.
Post last edited on 16/08/2017 00:16:03
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23/8/2017 at 1:08pm
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I think that you've made a wise choice ultraquasar. We've just returned from a camping trip in our Vango TC800XL Polycotton and we were very impressed with it. We had several days where high winds and rain pummelled us, with gusts of up to 50mph, but the tent remained very stable, surprisingly quiet and very snug.
Needless to say, it remained totally waterproof the whole time despite 3 days of rain on the trot. On the odd good day that we had, it was perfectly habitable inside, whereas our nearest neighbours' polyester tent was insufferably hot. A few people coming into the fairly remote campsite we stayed at remarked on how impressed they were with the Vango. It needs a rethink of the awning section as having just one zip out flap is impractical, but other than that, we are glad that we bought it.
Completely contrary to one opinion in a post above, despite night time temperatures plummeting to 10 degrees less than the max daytime temperature, we never had any stability or major loss of pressure issues whatsoever. In fact, measuring the night time cold weather dip, pressures fell by a maximum of just 1.5psi, and the tent remained solid as a rock.One of the reps told us that they're rated to 15psi and we know that they're dead stable from 5psi upwards.
Post last edited on 23/08/2017 13:12:58
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