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I agree Sue, these boards alone illustrate a renewed interest in heavier, more expensive tents which will have a longer lifespan. That said, the trend is surely more geared towards designs with SIGs which echo their synthetic counterparts (I'm thinking Outwell here especially, which surely have cornered the market with their 'Lakes' range).

Cabanon prices especially have gone through the roof this year, which won't help renew their standing within the wider market, methinks. Their frame tents are second to none, but larger models are especially bulky and heavy (albeit reasonably easy to pitch) so will that surely reduces their market once again. Having said that, the frame bags on some synthetics, and certainly on the new polycotton hybrids, are now giving them a run for their money on the weight issue!

So, I reckon that price and style are squeezing traditional canvas tents out of the market, for sure. That, and the fact that many people aren't buying a single tent anymore and keeping it for it's lifespan,  but instead are buying a tent for every occasion and changing them when a new one takes their fancy. There is too much financial loss iinvolved in doing that with new canvas tents.

Double post - sorry!

Quote: Originally posted by sunvalleysue on 07/6/2009

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Hi Liddeham,

This does not seem the norm on the continenet,ie NL and France where they have world class canvas tent makers.
The campers of these countries seem to still favour the top quality canvas tents which are made in their respective countries.
Here in the UK we don't have such manufacturers.
I just wish (especially the Netherlands) that they would realise there is a market for their canvas tents over here and start a UK outlet for them.

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I wonder if they have a different attitude towards tent purchasing? They do have  different climates, too, which might explain the preference for canvas over synthetic tents, maybe?

I would also like to see more comprehensive displays of canvas tents, and esp the brands you mention in your first post. Maybe it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation; which comes first, the tent displays or the orders?

Does nobody else care to join this thread?

Seriously, does no-one else out there hanker to view a display of canvas tents sporting the name badges of Trigano, Jamet, Relum, Marechal, Cabanon and Lichfield, De Waard and Esvo?

I feel shocked, and let down...

There is nothing like the smell of canvas on a sunny day, or hearing raindrops on the canvas and knowing you are safe and secure in your well-made, built-to-last tent!

Quote: Originally posted by Liddenham on 07/6/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by sunvalleysue on 07/6/2009

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Hi Liddeham,

This does not seem the norm on the continenet,ie NL and France where they have world class canvas tent makers.
The campers of these countries seem to still favour the top quality canvas tents which are made in their respective countries.
Here in the UK we don't have such manufacturers.
I just wish (especially the Netherlands) that they would realise there is a market for their canvas tents over here and start a UK outlet for them.

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I wonder if they have a different attitude towards tent purchasing? They do have  different climates, too, which might explain the preference for canvas over synthetic tents, maybe?

I would also like to see more comprehensive displays of canvas tents, and esp the brands you mention in your first post. Maybe it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation; which comes first, the tent displays or the orders?

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IMHO if manufacterers were brave enough to display then the orders would come. Maybe not at full speed at first but once the reputation of the makers spread by word and recommendation, then the orders would speed up as long as the pirce was right.

I am no expert on Dutch tents and am still in the process of learning, but seeing the demand and admiration from people on this forum, it is blatently obvious that there is a market.

Ebay sales of old canvas frame tents also demonstrates the demand for good quality, long lasting canvas.

One problem is the shipping costs and laws

I know that here there are laws protecting postal workers from lifting packages that are too heavy so postal services only allow parcels up to a maximum of 30kg so anything over that weight has to be on a pallet to be lifted by forklift.

Unfortunately, the big canvas tents are over that weight even if the poles are excluded so shipping rates become incredibly high.

I often point people in the direction of the English version of Obelink which is a huge store but I am sad to say that probably due to the laws about shipping, they only have their smaller pyramids on offer to overseas customers.

I know that De Wit will ship to europe but again, their hands are tied when it comes to weight so again, the larger pyramids and frame tents are out of the question for shipping.

My suggestion is always this........

If you want a large Dutch cotton tent then forget the shipping and book a ferry.

Collect the tent yourself and have a weekend (or  however much time you want) camping in Holland.

It is a better way to spend the money it would cost to ship a heavy tent to the UK.

I have had a glass or 2 of the old vino so I hope this makes sense

If it doesnt then just ignore me lol

Angie

Don't forget Hawley Goodall.  They made some excellent frame tents, including a 2-berth frame tent, in the late 60's and early 70's.  The Goodall tents were blue canvas but they also made them in yellow/brown and rebadged for Halfords.

Hi,

I would love to be able to go to an 'outdoor' store and be able to walk around a display of canvas / polycotton tents in the same way that you can view polyester tents.

I think you are right Angie that there is a market, and yes, that market would grow year on year if people were able to view these canvas tents as easily as polyester. At most of the displays in this country anyone walking round looking to buy their first tent is not given a choice of materials...they are invariably polyester.....so they will buy polyester.

As has been said a lot is to do with all the extra costs involved with canvas/polycotton but I still really think people would buy them if they saw them! Also I would like to see more of the 'medium' sized tents available in canvas....three and four man tents as that's what suits me! There were loads around in the 70's 80's but the only way to buy them now is secondhand off ebay or a jaunt over the water!

Maybe it's not a viable business selling them in the UK.....or maybe like Angie says, no one has been brave enough.

I think a store selling the whole range of canvas/polycotton, right from the big Cabanons, DeWaards down to the smaller pyramids and even smaller ridges etc would do a roaring trade. They could sell these alongside the more 'traditional' camping equipment etc.....a sort of retro feel to it!

Quote: Originally posted by splendidisolation on 08/6/2009

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Hi,

I would love to be able to go to an 'outdoor' store and be able to walk around a display of canvas / polycotton tents in the same way that you can view polyester tents.

I think you are right Angie that there is a market, and yes, that market would grow year on year if people were able to view these canvas tents as easily as polyester. At most of the displays in this country anyone walking round looking to buy their first tent is not given a choice of materials...they are invariably polyester.....so they will buy polyester.

As has been said a lot is to do with all the extra costs involved with canvas/polycotton but I still really think people would buy them if they saw them! Also I would like to see more of the 'medium' sized tents available in canvas....three and four man tents as that's what suits me! There were loads around in the 70's 80's but the only way to buy them now is secondhand off ebay or a jaunt over the water!

Maybe it's not a viable business selling them in the UK.....or maybe like Angie says, no one has been brave enough.

I think a store selling the whole range of canvas/polycotton, right from the big Cabanons, DeWaards down to the smaller pyramids and even smaller ridges etc would do a roaring trade. They could sell these alongside the more 'traditional' camping equipment etc.....a sort of retro feel to it!

 

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But, are canvas tents only considered 'retro' because they simply aren't seen as much nowadays, due (presumably) to their higher price tags and reduced availability?

Call something 'retro' and it can easily be translated into 'dated'. That's surely why Cabanon introduced the Biscaya, Vision and Satellite ranges, to challenge that potential viewpoint, yet still they are not widely stocked or to be found on display.

Retailers are playing it safe and stocking what they know will sell aplenty.

Quote: Originally posted by sunvalleysue on 07/6/2009

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Are we victims of our own downfall demanding cheaper and cheaper lightweight tents.

What do you think?

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Quote: Originally posted by numbersix on 08/6/2009

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I think price point is everything in this market. Most people on this forum are looking to buy tents of quality in the sub £300 sector . Accepting a materials cost increase that canvas would dictate, could someone come to the market with an 8 berth tent for say , under £400 . Considering it is possible to get cracking deals at below £200, you can see that it is a tough market to break into . To be really cruel, the relative longevity of the two types is in itself , part of the problem as canvas has a longer life span than polyester, so over a period of say ten years, a camper might get through three or four polyester tents . A canvas camper might not ever change theirs . Not good for turnover .

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Yep, this is the other side of the coin from what I proposed earlier; that spending so much more money means a new canvas tent has to be a bit of an 'investment' (time-wise, as much as financially), since if you buy and then sell quickly, as many campers nowadays do with synthetics, the financial loss would be considerable. For example, there is a good market for used Cabanon tents, but if you decide to sell one after just a season or two, the loss is horrendous.

If your theory is right, numbersix, I wonder if the profit margin on, say, a Cabanon tent, is greater than that on an Outwell, to compensate for the fewer overall sales achieved per customer?

Liddenham,

I think you're right about why Cabanon have introduced the Biscaya and I do think that is the way canvas has to go to sell well. Modern and innovative designs BUT in canvas.

If I were selling canvas tents I certainly wouldn't market them as retro for the reasons you stated as yes people would deem them 'old fashioned'. Maybe I'm showing my age but retro to me means quality/well made etc and not 'dated'! 

We do seem to demand cheaper prices on everything , not just tents but I still think there is a potential market in the UK for the higher priced canvas/polycotton tents. Lets hope when the financial situation improves a UK retailer/supplier will take the plunge and put on a decent display for the canvas deprived.