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Hi,

We used our new replacement Wolf Lake 5 last week over the very wet half term jubilee break and it leaked in about 6 different places - mainly on the seams. Lots of continuous heavy driven rain and the winds were pretty strong ( gusts up to 40mph - a lot of campers packed up and left) so I had the guy ropes very taut to keep the tent stable.

I am wondering whether tightly stretching the setting out of the tent like this can increase the chance of the seams leaking due to putting them under more strain? I have since put up the tent in the garden without tensioning the guys as much and despite soaking it with the hose can not see any leaks...

When tensioning the guys tightly the fabric was pulled into contact with the external frame - don't know whether this could also contribute to leaks?

The tent was new at the end of last year and had only been weathered by a lightish soaking from a hosepipe proir to this trip. Does anyone think the tent will be more waterproof after several soakings?

Any views gratefully recieved!

Hi Clive99,

As a fellow WL5 owner there are a few things that you say that raise concerns and I thought I would chip in with a reply

Pegging out the guy lines to the point where the flysheet is in contact with the poles I would say is pulling the fly far too tight and would put the fabric and stitching under excessive strain. What you need to remember is how poly cotton becomes water tight, it swells when wet and the weave closes up to stop water penetrating. By stretching the fabric you will pull the weave and also the stitching open which will allow water to penetrate the flysheet.

The other thing worth remembering is that the Wolf, like the Bear and Norfolk, have the side brace bars fitted which give these tents far more stability than tents without these bars and as such they do not rely totally on the guy lines to hold the tent up. In fact the only guy lines on the Wolf that hold a section up are in fact the canopy lines, the rest are storm guy's except for the guys along the rear of the tent which help to hold the shape of the rear panel from sagging against the sleeping pod.

The storm guy's, the main guy lines that run down either side of the tent adjacent to each pole, if pegged out correctly only need to give the flysheet and adjoining pole a holding point were by the tent will not travel beyond when effected directly by the wind and by tightening them to a point where the fly is in contact with the poles will not improve the stability of the tent at all.

To try and explain this imagine your the tent !!! standing straight up you are passed two rope's one in each hand that are secured to the ground either side of you about 3 feet away on either side. Now take up the slack in the rope's so that you are standing straight up and you have equal tension in each rope but not to the point where you are being forced down by pulling too tightly on the ropes. You are now stabilised equally on each side yet not under tension so if someone now pushes you from the side the rope on that side stops you from moving beyond this point, your catch point. If you where holding the rope tighter on one side than the other you would become unstable and your balance effected. Now if someone was to push you from the same side you will now be reliant on the opposite rope to balance out the directional force and stop you from slipping beyond your catch point and falling over.

Its the same with the tent, put it under tension and the poles and flysheet become weaker, allow it to stand yet support it as it was designed and the tent will do what it was designed to do. Most damage is caused by incorrect tensions and pegging of guy lines and not a weak tent. look at some of the extreme expedition tents, they are as flimsy looking as a carrier bag yet pegged and tensioned correctly they stand up too far more than our heavy alloy or steel poled tents will ever be exposed too.

I am guessing your leaks were due to over tight guy lines, loosen them off and I bet you wont have any issues.

Good luck.  

Hi People

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to a customer who purchased an Outwell Polycotton from ourselves. This may help the OP, I wish Outwell would include something like this with the tents, no doubt it would be worded better than me as well...

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Firstly Thank you for ordering the Outwell Montana Lake tent etc, I am emailing you today to give some advise as to looking after the Montana Lake and what you might expect from the tent.
 
Polycotton tents have some huge advantages over polyester tents but on the other hand there are some points that you need to be made aware of.
 
Cheaper polyester tents are very waterproof but polyester tents can also suffer from a great deal of condensation which can seem like leaking as you can find large pools of water within the tent, mostly when there are a number of people in the tent with wet clothes and footwear etc. The seams on a polyester tent need to be heat sealed as the fabric will not swell around the stitch holes as the tent gets wet. Due to the tent not being able to breath polyester tents can seem very very hot inside and very cold in cooler months, these are some of the disadvantages with polyester tents but they are normally cheaper, lighter and easier to look after.
 
Polycotton tents are a bit different, firstly the Outwell Polycottons have a very high cotton content and as such will feel much cooler in hot weather and far warmer in cooler weather as they can breath far better, the down side is if you pack a polycotton tent away wet you need to get it out and dried far quicker than a polyester tent due to the natural fibres. You may of heard of "weathering a tent", this is something that needs to be done to your tent. The first time the Montana Lake tent gets wet you may find a fine misting coming through the fabric, possible drips from the curtain area or where the inners hang from the outer tent, this is due to the openess of the weave when manufactured, once the tent has been soaked the fibres start to swell and the weave starts to tighten up making the tent more water resistant, you may need to go through this cycle a few times depending on how wet the tent gets the first few times, you can do this in the garden with a hose but there is nothing better than mother nature for weathering a tent. The seams on a polycotton are always the point that if water is going to get into a polycotton tent thats normally were it will be due to the stitching and the fact good cotton canvas tents do not have heat sealed/taped seams, again weathering will normally do the job of sealing the seams but we always inclued a couple of tubes of seam sealant for you just in case. 
 
What we are trying to let you know is polycotton tents are great, we love them but please be aware they will never be as waterproof as a (plastic) polyester tent but the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages, they are cooler in hot weather, warmer in cold weather, you will have far less condensation if any in your tent making for a far more comfortable feeling in the tent and they last 4-5 times longer than a polyester tent when looked after...
 
So please enjoy your tent and be assured you have a superb tent that will last you for years and years.

Thanks for the advice all.

Gary is there a particular type of seam sealant you would recommend for Polycotton? I bought an Outwell seam sealer which is a small tube of very thick glue - doesn't look like it would go far in this tent - though I suppose you're meant to treat the point where the leak occurs as opposed to all the seams?

The Wolf is an awesome tent mind - in a moment of despondency I thought of trying to swop it for a polyester Outwell but couldn't see anything I'd rather stay in....!

Hi

The Outwell or Grangers seam seal are great, the best is from Storm called Seal Repair Adhesive. Yes just treat an area that needs it but again you may not need it but its worth taking.

Gary

Tent has been up in the garden since the weekend with a decent amount of rain today. Checked inside earlier this evening and all dry (great I thought).... then I checked about 1/2 an hour ago after some heavier rain and found 6 tiny leaks. I have now ringed the spots with a coloured pencil and will either see if they improve with more rain or treat them with the Outwell seam sealer I picked up today when its dry.

Incidentally it is very easy to spot the actual point where the leak occurs (as opposed to seeing the water on the floor)  in the dark with a torch as the tiny raindrops on the seam reflect the torchlight (and show up when photographed with a camera and flash) - probably very hard to spot in the daylight I would imagine.

Turns out the leaks have still occurred with the tent pitched less tightly it seems. There seems to be less water ingress than last week but hard to tell if this is due to the holes slowly closing up or due to the quantity of rainfall experienced, but I am hopeful.....