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Subject Topic: Can anyone offer some advice ?
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12/11/2014 at 10:00am
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A Park Home means a home on a mobile park, i.e. residential. Not same as a static on a holiday park and unfortunately at the moment there are no laws regulating holiday parks so these gits can get away with anything.

We are in same position as OP - bought a static 8 months ago when my dad was diagnosed with cancer and we needed a base in the UK to be near him. Did loads of research, looked at loads of places. Asked all the right questions. Eventually bought what we thought was perfect van - on large plot, dogs allowed, no age limits, could sell privately for 15% commission when we left.

Now my dad has died and we are looking to leave the UK again. Site owner now saying because we did not buy through him and bought one advertised privately (he got commission) he has decided that there is a 15 year age limit on our van (its 16) and so we have to sell off-site. I guess he would buy it back from us for a pittance. There is no written contract as he does not give them.

Very pee'd off as we had hoped to get back at least a decent amount as its a lovely van, very good condition and top spec. And it was the plot that would have sold it as massive with garden etc.

So now left with being offered a very small amount by dealer or site owner, even though same vans on dealer's yards and autotrader are £8000 or more.

Or we are considering moving it to somewhere else we might at least use for the odd holiday or friends and family would.

Or trying to sell privately.


15/11/2014 at 12:29pm
 Location: Staffordshire
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As far as I know, there are no laws governing the charges and practices for holiday homes, rather than for residential park type homes.

IMHO the whole area of buying a static caravan is a nightmare and to be avoided unless you have a huge pile of cash you would like to fritter away.

I speak from personal experience.  My parents bought a van on a nice site next to the river, so dad could fish and they could have a holiday home in the country.  Paid £9000 for the van, extra for "siting it" (it was already sited and hooked up to all amenities anyway) and when they came to sell it less than 2 years later, they had to sell it back to the site owner for £1,500.  No choice, it was in the agreement that private sales were not allowed and all prospective purchasers had to be "vetted" by them.  In other words, sell it to us for what we deem it to be worth. 

We were honestly tempted to set light to it rather than let it go for that price but didn't fancy the criminal record for arson!!

I know for a fact that less than a month after mom and dad sold that van back to the site, they resold it for £8,000.   It's a licence to print money and I would agree with the person above, someone should investigate this racket.  One big rip off.



17/11/2014 at 10:51am
 Location: Surrey
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Reading the replies since my post on the 10th - all but one of which have given other examples of the depressing situation and the rapacious nature of site owners - reminds me of a similar situation in the 80s with boating marinas around the coast.

Most of them, at that time were privately, or Council owned and, with such direct interest and general competition, the boat owners were given reasonable consideration in return for their custom, which often lasted for years, sometimes through several generations.

Then along came one organisation which spotted a potential monopoly situation and started buying up the marinas, while making reassuring noises about how, with their better resources, they would improve things no end, for the sailors. You can guess what actually has happened since, to terms & conditions, and prices!!

In addition to smaller caravan site owners, we have seen some very big site - owning groups emerge, over the last 30 years, so the laws wont be changed in a hurry.

The only possibility of reversing this nasty trend is if some big players, like the main caravanning clubs, local authorities, or co-operatives, or other land owners, started to invest in sites where site ownership was reasonable, not a form of legalised highway robbery.

And,apart from holiday ownership and use, there are a lot of people these days who's only chance of a decent home is on a Park Home site. I am not clear about the definitions of the differences between statics, lodges for park homes but clearly, and particularly for residential ownership, the laws need to protect people and their financially fragile dwelling arrangements. I realise this latter point is straying away from the interests of most of us on this website, but the problems are closely connected.

There are a vast number of decent campers and caravanners, of one type or another, in this country and their combined buying power and influence could be massive.






-------------
Nobby


21/11/2014 at 8:42pm
 Location: Staffordshire
 Outfit: Freelander 2 2.2GS
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In my view what it all boils down to is that a staticis a worthless piece of junk if you have nowhere to site it.   Simple as that really, and the site owners know it.

If you do manage to find somewhere to site it, it will cost a fortune in transport costs (low loader etc. etc.) disconnection and reconnection fees.  This is if you manage to find somewhere, and it's a very big if.  

The whole industry is unregulated, a minefield.  Even if you do manage to find a well run site on reasonable terms, if it is sold on to an unscrupulous new owner, they can come along and change your contract/agreement to suit, massively increase the pitch fees, introduce new terms etc. etc. and there is not a thing you can do about it.

The more you spend on a van in the first place, the more you are in danger of losing out.  My advice - don't touch a static with a barge pole.  If you do want a van on a pitch, buy a large tourer and look for a seasonal pitch...so much easier to move it if things don't work out or if you no longer want to be on site for whatever reason.   A tourer is properly mobile, a static isn't.  That's what makes the difference.



02/1/2015 at 9:02pm
 Location: Wirral
 Outfit: Abbey Vocue 418 GTS
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Most commercial sites do not give tenants a fair deal. As far as I know they are still unregulated and the landowner has you at his mercy. Start up fees, extortionate annual fees, charge for installation, charge for connections to services, charge to disconnect, ten years old and buy a new van (overpriced- from him), sell the old one (undervalued- to him).
I have a static on a site which is a private social club and owned by the members. Been in existence since 1948 and facilities improve year by year. Seventeen acres in beautiful rural Cheshire countryside. Has heated swimming pool, crown green bowls, boules court, shuffleboard, tennis courts,natural ponds with facility for fishing, modern clubroom and pavilion with lounge,regular dining events and entertainment. Two shower and toilet blocks and a sauna suite. Fully serviced touring sites with individual lighting, water supply, mains electric and waste water disposal at each emplacement.
AGM last October agreed a huge increase in annual fees. From £670 to £725. That's for annual membership, use of all facilities, static caravan site fees, water and rates included. Gas and electricity are billed separately.
Those who buy new caravans from main dealers gain a reduction in price of around 30% due to there being no site owners 'commission', and connection charges.

-------------
DaveK


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04/1/2015 at 4:27pm
 Location: Surrey
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Quote: Originally posted by davewk80 on 02/1/2015
Most commercial sites do not give tenants a fair deal. As far as I know they are still unregulated and the landowner has you at his mercy. Start up fees, extortionate annual fees, charge for installation, charge for connections to services, charge to disconnect, ten years old and buy a new van (overpriced- from him), sell the old one (undervalued- to him).
I have a static on a site which is a private social club and owned by the members. Been in existence since 1948 and facilities improve year by year. Seventeen acres in beautiful rural Cheshire countryside. Has heated swimming pool, crown green bowls, boules court, shuffleboard, tennis courts,natural ponds with facility for fishing, modern clubroom and pavilion with lounge,regular dining events and entertainment. Two shower and toilet blocks and a sauna suite. Fully serviced touring sites with individual lighting, water supply, mains electric and waste water disposal at each emplacement.
AGM last October agreed a huge increase in annual fees. From £670 to £725. That's for annual membership, use of all facilities, static caravan site fees, water and rates included. Gas and electricity are billed separately.
Those who buy new caravans from main dealers gain a reduction in price of around 30% due to there being no site owners 'commission', and connection charges.



Hi Davewk80. Happy New Year!

You will see from my posts in this thread on 10th and 17th November 2014, that you, I, and many others are in complete agreement about the roguery of many site owners. And your post also illustrates how it could be done if... if... if only, enough 'van owners and their clubs and associations would pool their resources - people power, buying power, money, knowledge, etc etc, things could change.

Meanwhile, as I and my wife look for a well managed, friendly, seasonal site a bit nearer our south Cheshire home, can you please tell me where your idyllic site is??

Many thanks. Bales


-------------
Nobby


13/2/2015 at 9:51pm
 Location: Staffordshire
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At least we have this site to share our experience and knowledge.   

This is all we can do really. The rules regarding holiday home ownership are not likely to change in the near future. I advise anyone on here or anyone I know to steer clear of statics for the reasons given above.

Clubs and Associations are mainly involved in touring and camping, rather than static vans and I always get the impression that campers rather look down their noses on static van owners (and I say this from the point of view of someone who owns a tourer and uses it for touring). Don't understand this attitude personally.


13/2/2015 at 10:14pm
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I do nt own a static and never would I. I have heard & read so many stories of these rip off sites and seen many a second hand unsited unit sold for peanuts because of the problems of finding a site for a used unit.

Are these site owners not aware that they will eventually kill the golden goose?

-------------
Steve




15/2/2015 at 11:56am
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Well after reading this post, I will not ever be buying a Static, what a racket it seems to be.

Back in 2004, whilst at Camping du Pylon in the South of France, I was very tempted to buy a Static that a British couple were selling, in fact at the time there were a few Brits selling up.

Prices were fine around 6000€ for a decent van with all the mod cons, not new maybe 10 years old or more, maybe a lot more.

But then I learned that I could only buy if the campsite owner liked me!, and that the annual site service charge was 5000€ and that was if only I was using it, if I wanted to rent it out or let other family members use the Static, there would be added costs.

I never got as far as finding out what the exit costs would be.

I just walked away, it all seemed just to much hassle to me.

Post last edited on 15/02/2015 12:20:19


15/2/2015 at 10:12pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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It is indeed a racket, Francais. I would rent one for a holiday, but I would never consider buying one. Out of sheer curiosity I took a look at what they were selling for on ebay recently. I watched one that looked quite good, and it sold for £102! They are absolutely worthless unless you have your own land to put them on. Transport costs aren't cheap either. Owning a static site seems like a licence to print money to me, and it appears you can make up your own rules as you go along too. Control on these site owners seems to range from very weak to non-existent.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


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16/2/2015 at 10:14pm
 Location: Staffordshire
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Seems this is a problem not only in the UK, but also in France!

You would think that eventually they would kill the goose that lays the golden egg but there would seem to be no shortage of folk out there who are willing to part with their hard earned cash, only to find it is a bottomless pit into which you are expected to pour even more money.

What is needed is lots of bad publicity for these site owners to try to put everyone wise to the racket they are running.   As I say, this site is moving things that way and every little helps.


16/2/2015 at 10:56pm
 Location: Surrey
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You would think people would do a lot of research and checking into what static ownership really involves, before they commit. However, this is not a grudge purchase but a romantic dream, that most of us aspire to.

We want that holiday home and site owners are good, if not excellent, in creating the right image, so potential owners simply don't due true 'due diligence' to protect themselves.

Perhaps one solution, at least to make absolutely sure a buyer HAS read his contract properly, is for the local authority to insist in the site planning application stage, that ALL new owners and the site operators must both sign and date a legal contract, written in plain English on a common template, which includes all the terms and charges,and each party having a copy. And, if, as in my S-i-L's case there was no written contract issued at the time of purchase, none can be subsequently imposed and existing rents are all that can be charged.

As I wrote on 17th November, my sister-in-law bought a lodge from owners who were - unbeknown to her - in negotiations to sell the site.The new site operator then retrospectively imposed terms which included being paid 10% of the sale of the lodge and would not permit her to remove the lodge, OR sell to anyone else, unless and until that charge was paid AND a contract signed there and then, to cover him.



-------------
Nobby


17/2/2015 at 8:50am
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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I can remember when a similar situation existed with park homes, but the law did eventually change. Not early enough for us though! We bought a park home, or "mobile home" as they were then usually called, back in 1970. We lived in it until the ground rent just got ridiculous. It seemed to go up every other month! Then we tried to sell, and found out that we could not sell it to remain on the park, which had changed owners since we bought. Obviously nobody was interested if they had to remove it, so we ended up having to sell it to the site owners for peanuts. A fraction of what we paid for it 4 years earlier.

Through friends who still lived on the park we learnt that the site had sold it for 4 times what they paid us for it. Then came the real cheek. They sent us a bill for "unsiting" which came to nearly what they paid us for it! Knowing that it was still on site we ignored the bill. The letters from them demanding payment got stronger and stronger until I sent a letter back to them asking them to prove it had been "unsited", which I knew it hadn't. I got a couple more letters from them demanding payment, which I ignored and eventually they gave up. I wonder how many would have paid up thinking they had to? The letters were very matter-of-fact and legal-looking.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


20/2/2015 at 12:47pm
 Location: Wirral
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Apologies to Bales for late reply to his January post. Been away in Lanzagrotty. 25 years since we were there and it's not improved (Playa Blanca is ok though). Landscape of Martian slag heaps and howling gale most of the time.
Answer to your question re idyllic caravan site owned by the members can be found at Postcode WA16 9JF. Springfield, Sandy Lane near Swan Green,Cheshire.

http://www.springfieldmsas.org/

-------------
DaveK



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