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05/2/2010 at 12:25pm
Location: Otley
Outfit: Terra Nova Laser Com
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I don't know about Scouting generally but UK DofE participants have a bit of a reputation in the lightweight fraternity of lugging huge packs around. I think a lot of "DofE Recommended Kit" contributes to that: 65-75 litre rucksacks that weigh in > 2kg when empty, Trangias at > 1kg, tents > 2kg, synthetic sleeping bags > 1.5kg.
I'm 6' tall and approaching 13st and the 10-11kg pack I carry in winter (down jacket, crampons, ice axe, etc) really slows me down. I bet some DofE kids carry more than that in summer. For young lads and lasses with big rucksacks and undeveloped muscles, that sort of weight and more must put a big strain on their joints. For short summer trips I think you should be aiming for them carrying no more than 8-9kg total (including food & water). You might not quite get there but it's a good target.
Obviously really light stuff costs £££ (or €€€ in your case), especially tents and down bags. And there's a balance to be struck between wellbeing and denying someone an opportunity because of the money their parents can contribute. But there are things you can do at a reasonable cost to avoid those joint-busters.
Supermarkets and catalogue chains often have good value 2-3 season down bags that weigh ~ 800g. Perhaps look at recommending single-hoop tents rather than bomb-proof geodesics and semi-geodesics. Maybe even the fabled ProAction single-skin tents. Once the volume of stuff comes down, you can get into 40-50 litre rucksacks and the weight comes down even more.
A good Scouting project would be to replace the > 1kg of a Trangia with a drinks-can stove system, pot cosies, etc. Knocking 800g of stove/cookset is easily attainable at little cost and would be a great project. I can provide links and tips if that's of interest?
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Richard
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26/6/2010 at 11:28pm
Location: Weegieland Scotland
Outfit: SunValley 8
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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but as I've just returned from a DofE expedition, the topic is at the front of my mind.
One of the reasons that the youngsters appear to be humphing huge heavy packs around is that the packs and much of their contents do not belong to the youngsters themselves, but belong to the DofE Group. As such, they have been purchased with longevity and value for money in mind, perhaps as much as or more than useability and weight.
My group has consciously switched from buying top end lightweight tents and rucksacks to more cost effective gear, because the expensive stuff is trashed just as quickly as the cheaper stuff. It's just unfortunate that the cheaper stuff tends to weigh more than the good stuff.
So in order to save weight, I've banned the little intrepid adventurers from carrying tinned food, all their electronic toys, especially things like hair straighteners and DVD players and PSPs, and encouraged them to keep the sports equipment to an absolute minimum. But, do they listen ?
However, one bright spark recently took the weight saving advice to the other extreme by bringing along a £10 note in lieu of food and cooking gear, and expected me to run him to the fish and chip shop 8 miles away for his meals. I must admit to having been lost for words. Well, printable words anyway.
My rule of thumb for rucksack weight is that if I judge that it's too heavy for my delicate muscles to carry, then it's too heavy for them. This sort of translates into a maximum weight of around 12-15kgs. Anything weighing more than that invites a request for it to be emptied and rationalised before we leave for the hills.
A bit of a ramble there, but the bottom line is that the gear weighs more than my own personal stuff because it was funded by you and me and the general public and is therefore from the cheaper end of the ranges.
Z
Post last edited on 26/06/2010 23:39:13
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29/6/2010 at 10:35am
Location: South London
Outfit: Cabanon Aruba Force 10 Crux Storm
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How the bag is packed is an issue also. Here's an extract from the briefing note I send out to our kids.
"You will need a rucksack which must have a waist strap and must fit properly. I have seen too many people sent out on expeditions with unsuitable bags and it is a pathetic sight to see someone in considerable pain because their bag is unsuitable. Naturally such people give up the award!
The waist strap is so that the weight is carried mostly on the hips with the load supported by the shoulders, think carrying a baby (or two) on your hips and you will get the idea. Go to a shop where the staff know what they are doing and will take time to find a bag which fits you properly.
Packing a bag is a bit of an art with conflicting requirements to be met. You need the stuff you’re going to need during the day packed where you can get at it and things you don’t need during the day like your sleeping bag can go right at the bottom of the bag.
Heavy stuff needs to go close to your body and towards the top of the bag. This is so that the weight (as far as possible) is carried straight down your spine. If the load is at the bottom of the bag and away from your body you will tend to lean forward to compensate for the weight which is uncomfortable and will bend your spine which is very bad for your back. Also take care to pack your bag so that things with sharp corners such as plastic boxes don’t dig into your back.
Pack only what you need. By the end of a long day when you are tired, every extra gram counts because you have to carry it! As stated above, D of E rules do not allow you to carry more than one third of your body weight."
Of course they take no notice of any of this and fill half the bag with biscuits, chocolate and crisps: Never mind.
Take care
R
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Topic: Scout`s
. At least twice as much as I carry in the summer (without the potential savings of sharing kit) and I'm about 80kg. 
