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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 14/6/2009

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which regs are specific to camping hook-ups? In the old 16th edition supply regs there were no regs specific to camping type hook-ups only caravans.Have they now been updated in the 17th edition?
Saxo1

The wiring regs do not apply to a hook-up unit. Hook-up units are portable appliances and do not form part of a fixed wiring installation. However the supply point on a campsite into which to connect your hook-up unit IS covered by part 721 of the  BS7671 wiring regs as it is a fixed installation. But I would recommend having your hook-up unit PAT tested for safety.

There isn't an exact law on hook up units- It is strongly advised BY MANUFACTURERS that an additional RCD or isolating transformer be used as supplementary protection but it is not a legal requirement. And these recommendations are backed up by the likes of Caravan Club and the like. But it's nothing more than a backside covering exercise by manufacturers to justify the extortionate price tags and campsite owners who have fallen for the "additional RCD" myth. These "additional" RCD's offer NO MORE protection than the RCD at the supply point (because there's no discrimination between them) and as such the RCD at the supply point WILL be sufficient enough to protect you on its own.

 

Quote: Originally posted by nuttyboy on 14/6/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by scrumble on 14/6/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by nuttyboy on 13/6/2009

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I know you could still have one made up a lot cheaper and fully compliant though!

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Really, like to point out where you can get 20m of suitable cable, an RCD, and 3 suitable sockets, and the plug for so much less that £40 it'd be worth it?

It cerainly wouldn't be using Masterseal sockets as they are something like £30 quid a pop last time I bought one.

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Ok, ok........being in the trade it's easy for me to get the bits very cheaply........MK Masterseal can be expensive if you buy them from B & Q or somewhere like that but there are alternative IP56 rated skts and these are much cheaper.

I suppose what I was getting at was if he knew somebody in the trade he could have it done cheaper!<IMG border=0 align=absMiddle src="https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/forum_images/smiley4.gif" alt=17> 

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My only thought abut the standard EHU unit is the RCD is in the tent unit. I can't help thinking that a weatherproof inline RCD near the plug end would be better as it would also protect the cable.

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That would just be very silly. The site supply socket outlet is already protected by means of an RCD and MCB. Which means that anything plugged into it is also protected! That's what they're there for!  Another RCD is pointless because it will offer you no more protection than the one at the supply outlet! And there is no legal requirement for you to have one - it's just a clever way for manufacturers to fleece more money out of you.

You could have 3 IP56 rated sockets (masterseal or much cheaper weatherproof equivalent) connected to a 3 core cable and BS4343 plug WITHOUT an additional RCD and it would be no more dangerous than a manufactured hook up unit.    

Quote: Originally posted by rabbitboy on 13/6/2009

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I have been informed by the other half that the blue part is 16 amp, but the domestic plug socket will most likely be 13 amp.  So you could end up blowing the fuse.

Looks a bit dodgy to me, don't try and save money, it's not worth it.

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Although you will never probably use 16 amps you need a thick cable as resistance increases with length.  It should also be brightly coloured so that people don't trip over it or cut it when mowing grass etc.  The reason why camping EHU,s are expensive is because the RCD and MBC,s are double pole operated (ie live and neutral) in case you go abroad, where you can occasionally find problems such as reverse polarity.  As others have said, buy the proper item and then you shouldn't have any worries.

Regards Bob

Quote: Originally posted by petemillis on 14/6/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by rabbitboy on 13/6/2009

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I have been informed by the other half that the blue part is 16 amp, but the domestic plug socket will most likely be 13 amp.  So you could end up blowing the fuse.

Looks a bit dodgy to me, don't try and save money, it's not worth it.

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It won't blow a fuse - it doesn't matter that the blue part is 16A and the socket is 13A. In your own home you'll find the mains socket wiring can carry 30A or more, yet you still have 13A sockets.

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Sorry I stand corrected!   Is definitely a dodgy lead though

Quote: Originally posted by nuttyboy on 14/6/2009

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My only thought abut the standard EHU unit is the RCD is in the tent unit. I can't help thinking that a weatherproof inline RCD near the plug end would be better as it would also protect the cable.

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That would just be very silly. The site supply socket outlet is already protected by means of an RCD and MCB. Which means that anything plugged into it is also protected! That's what they're there for!  Another RCD is pointless because it will offer you no more protection than the one at the supply outlet! And there is no legal requirement for you to have one - it's just a clever way for manufacturers to fleece more money out of you.

You could have 3 IP56 rated sockets (masterseal or much cheaper weatherproof equivalent) connected to a 3 core cable and BS4343 plug WITHOUT an additional RCD and it would be no more dangerous than a manufactured hook up unit

 

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"not all campsite outlets have an accessible RCD - I can think of at least 2 places I've camped (and we don't even use the EHU that much) where there was just an MCB at the outlet"

Then that is non-compliant and dangerous. The site supply and outlet IS within the scope of part 721 of wiring regs (BS7671) and must provide RCD and overload protection as all equipment used outdoors must be RCD protected. 

Yes....you are relying on someone else's equipment to work safely because that's what it's designed, installed and tested for!  

 "most og you posts is saying we don't need to have one at all"

er....no! I said you do not need an "additional" RCD- it's purely optional. I have read on CC/ C&CC publications that you must have one - but it's not a legal requirement.

 "OK there should be an RCD covering groups of sockets but this should be a time delayed one"

No it shouldn't. Ideally each outlet should have either an individual 30mA RCD and MCB combination for residual/overload current protection or RCBO's which cover both functions in one device - that way if your RCD trips it will not impact on other supplies. A time-delayed RCD would be dangerous as it will allow earth leakage current to flow for longer periods, which is a severely high shock risk to yourself and others.

"caravans certainly do legally require their own RCD"

Agreed! But the issue is with hook-up units!

The "additional" RCD argument can rage on and on but as an Electrician, I know that it would make no more difference with than without one.

Each to their own I suppose.

We were camping last year and someone brought a bog standard household extension lead and wondered why he couldn't use it?

We showed him our sooper dooper ( !! )...EHU cable and he had absolutely no clue thats the sort of thing he needed....stood in our tent scratching his head and looking a bit sick...especially as we told him we paid £70 for ours.

I have to admit that if more people start camping this year and more people start taking dodgy hook-up units...the more chance of possible unsavory incidents. That will mean more regulations.  I did hear somewhere once that there are a few sites who insist on seeing that you have the correct hook-up unit before they allow you to use it.

Quote: Originally posted by genie04 on 15/6/2009

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We were camping last year and someone brought a bog standard household extension lead and wondered why he couldn't use it?

We showed him our sooper dooper ( !! )...EHU cable and he had absolutely no clue thats the sort of thing he needed....stood in our tent scratching his head and looking a bit sick...especially as we told him we paid £70 for ours.

I have to admit that if more people start camping this year and more people start taking dodgy hook-up units...the more chance of possible unsavory incidents. That will mean more regulations.  I did hear somewhere once that there are a few sites who insist on seeing that you have the correct hook-up unit before they allow you to use it.

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£70 is an extortionate amount of money to pay! Think you've been had! You could have bought one for the still-extortionate amount of £50, but saving £20 nevertheless.

My view on EHU's is if you are fortunate to know a professional electrician, they could easily assemble and test a suitable unit for a fraction of the price and it would be just as safe as a manufactured one. But if not then the best thing to do is shop around for the best deal.

I wouldn't recommend eBay, because unless you are in the trade, chances are you won't be able to differentiate the good ones from the bad ones. If you must buy one, go to a reputable retailer.

A bog standard household extension cable is a bit ropey, given that the cross sectional area of the cores is typically between 0.5 - 1.0mm2. Ideally you want 2.5mm cable. 1.5mm can carry 16A, but the length of the cable would have to be considerably reduced due to increased impedance (resistance).

Quote: Originally posted by Dandyman Bob on 14/6/2009

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Although you will never probably use 16 amps you need a thick cable as resistance increases with length.  It should also be brightly coloured so that people don't trip over it or cut it when mowing grass etc.  The reason why camping EHU,s are expensive is because the RCD and MBC,s are double pole operated (ie live and neutral) in case you go abroad, where you can occasionally find problems such as reverse polarity.  As others have said, buy the proper item and then you shouldn't have any worries.

Regards Bob

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