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Subject Topic: Lithium batteries for a leisure battery?
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06/5/2024 at 8:02am
 Location: Bristol Uk
 Outfit: 2012 Outwell Trout Lake 4 & Tarp
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I think therefore the prices of electric cars should be much less than they are. I nearly bought a BMW 330e but opted for a 335D as it was overall about the same in MPG without the hassle of charging its puny battery, and a much more fun car to drive


via mobile 06/5/2024 at 8:06am
 Location: Northamptonshire
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Quote: Originally posted by SoggySteve on 05/5/2024
Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 26/4/2024

My 14 year old Peugeot 3008 does the same range on a full tank of diesel, as it did when it first rolled of the production line, in fact it maybe does more as the engine has been mapped out !   



I still think that due to the current state of the electrical charging network in the Uk (some of the Kwh prices they charge are shocking), the Hybrid market is probably still the place to invest your money if you're in to buying a new car. That said, there are some truly rubbish hybrids out there.

I think Tesla has their charging network much more locked down than the small array of over-chargers (no pun intended) that people have to put up with. The lack of standardisation is bad so although I think the BYD's are probably the best electrical option out there IMO, Tesla have the better network, despite maybe not the most modern battery tech.

The longevity of the batteries is obviously something the manufactures have not addressed a solution for owners. A Model 3 is near £50,000 and where does that leave you after ten years.. or even five years. I have a newer 2017 BMW diesel than the old Audi A4 diesel that I owned from 5 years old and sold to a friend for £700 aged 18. It still works fine. Unlike an 18 year old battery car with few affordable options to replace those cells. This needs fixing..



50% of Tesla’s charging network is now open for non-Tesla to charge on.
There is no “lack of standardisation” in charging. Everything uses type 2 and type 2 CCS.

How can you say there is no addressing of longevity? Batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100k miles. Apart form Kia and MG no one offers that kind of warranty on a petrol engine?

There are no 18 year old modern EVs around, so how can you be sure it’s an issue?

There are 10 year old Tesla S with 100s of thousands of miles and very little battery degradation.


10/8/2024 at 10:40am
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Respected LiFeP04 leisure battery seller Fogstar who are based in the UK, and ship from there Redditch Worcester facility, will have available from this October a 100ah no thrills, leisure battery for £220 at just 10kg.

To get the same useable capacity from a SLA AGM battery, you would need a 50kg battery that would be double the size of the Fogstar, not to mention the £300 price tag !


On the EV front, MG (SAIC) have announced life time warranty with unlimited mileage for there EV batteries.


10/8/2024 at 2:09pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Lead-acid batteries are still a far cheaper option for leisure use. Although of course they are much heavier. My 110ah battery on my caravan has now been on there for 7 years and it's fine.

I am always curious about "lifetime warranties". What does it actually mean? It certainly doesn't mean that it lasts for ever. Surely "lifetime" just means it lasts until it dies? If you managed to keep an MG EV for 25 years and its battery failed, would they still give you a new one under warranty?

My diesel X Trail is now 16 years old and still does around the same mpg as when it was new. It has also done around 138,000 miles, would a 16 year old EVs batteries still give the same mileage on a charge as they did when it was new? I don't think anyone really knows for certain.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 10/8/2024 at 2:15pm
 Location: Bristol Uk
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2024

My diesel X Trail is now 16 years old and still does around the same mpg as when it was new. It has also done around 138,000 miles, would a 16 year old EVs batteries still give the same mileage on a charge as they did when it was new? I don't think anyone really knows for certain.




I think people do know for sure that a 16 year old lithium battery would probably give a woefully small depth of charge compared to when it was new. I’ve been quite shocked at the depreciation of Tesla vehicles that are a mere few years old. That has to have something to do with battery concerns as they age. You can get a few year old model three for under £20k now which is a huge loss from the showroom price.


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10/8/2024 at 6:02pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Quote: Originally posted by SoggySteve on 10/8/2024
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2024

My diesel X Trail is now 16 years old and still does around the same mpg as when it was new. It has also done around 138,000 miles, would a 16 year old EVs batteries still give the same mileage on a charge as they did when it was new? I don't think anyone really knows for certain.




I think people do know for sure that a 16 year old lithium battery would probably give a woefully small depth of charge compared to when it was new. I’ve been quite shocked at the depreciation of Tesla vehicles that are a mere few years old. That has to have something to do with battery concerns as they age. You can get a few year old model three for under £20k now which is a huge loss from the showroom price.



I have always felt that would be the case. As I can only really afford older cars I think an EV is a non-starter for me. I can't see a 12 year old EV being much good at all battery wise. I went over my usual budget to buy the car I have now (£4,000) and I can't see any EV for that price being much good at all. Even if I could find one suitable. I'm perfectly happy with my 16 year old X Trail anyway. It does all I want and its very comfortable.




-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


11/8/2024 at 10:10am
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You make some valid points Colin.

Slightly of topic, but the YouTube film "Revenge of The Electric Car" is well worth a watch, it was made back in 2008 just around the time Tesla was starting up, it's amazing to see now were things have gone in just 16 years, not just for Tesla but the whole EV industry, and who new back then that ten years later Carlos Ghosn, would be escaping jail in Japan, by hiding in a flight case, on a plane, for him to escape to freedom in Lebanon !



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