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Topic: Johns Cross

Rutts

25/7/2014 at 4:11pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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Just wanted to gauge peoples opinions as to whether I'm being unreasonable or not.

I purchased a Coleman 424 duel fuel stove from Johns Cross Caravan and Camping last year (received it around 17th July). Used on three two day camping trips. Two last year and one this year. After all uses it is cleaned thoroughly and stored well (indoors). On my last trip, almost a year to the day (19th July) I turned it on and it wouldn't light. I was camping close to where I work so collected some tools and dismantled the generator. I discovered the needle had come away and was jammed in the nozzle. I managed to remove the needle with the tweezers from my trusty Macgyver knife. I re-attached the needle to the generator and the stove lived again. The generator was clean of any build ups of soot or the like. After reading up on these stoves I'm using Aspen 4T fuel for the very reason I don't want it blocked up. So I contacted Johns Cross explaining the situation. Now I didn't contact them demanding my money back or a new stove but I didn't think it was unreasonable to ask for a replacement generator due to the age of the and amount of use of the stove.
They flatly refused to supply one. The manager I spoke to cited the fact that it's a consumable part (I agree but surely not after three uses) and that was why he wouldn't replace it. It was, after all, a year old. He went on to say that if I had used it out of the box the first week I had it then it packed up the following week he still would not have replaced it as it isn't a manufacturing fault. I said it could be that it was tight at manafacture and that the needle was slowly being pulled from it's mounting over the three trips and eventually got stuck. He said no that couldn't happen. He also said the components could have worn with age. Over the year in storage? A high grade stainless pin and brass nozzle kept clean and dry. He even cited lack of use as a cause because the needle wasn't being lubricated by the fuel. At no time did he say well you could have used it hundreds of times in the last year or that it could be ill treated.
As I said I don't think, due to the age and use of the stove, it's unreasonable to expect a sympathetic ear from Johns Cross and replacement generator.
I will try Coleman's but the manager I spoke to assures me the policy he is applying is a Coleman policy.

Opinion please?

Rutts

Kes Green

25/7/2014 at 6:26pm
Location: None Entered
Outfit: Cabanon Chambord

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Hopefully you'll have more luck with Coleman.

I can sort of see their point as they only have your word (without examining the generator) that you haven't used it every day and/or stuck biodiesel or something in it.

That said, this does seem to be a faulty part and as such should justify a replacement.

Rutts

25/7/2014 at 6:34pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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I agree on the 'can't prove the use' but he didn't even mention that. He even said that that the needle to nozle fit was so fine that it could get blocked with a cobweb!! If he had questioned the use I'd quite happily send it back and they could examine it and see from the condition it's hardly been used.
I've spoken to Coleman and am waiting to hear back. It sounded promising but I spoke to their recommended parts retailer (who supplies their warranty spares) and he said it's not a warranty part. However even he said it sounds like a faulty part rather the storage wear/corrosion/wrong fuel or cobweb blockage!!

So I'll have to wait and see.

KampaWendy

25/7/2014 at 6:51pm
Location: High Wycombe
Outfit: Outwell Nevada M + Extension

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Hi
Does it say anywhere in your instructions that you should change that part at a specific time ie every year etc etc. If not then I would query as to why not. Even though the warranty has (probably) expired you are within your rights to expect an item to last a certain length of time and this is often longer than than the warranty period this is an extension to your statutory rights and for some items is up to 6 years. I had a washing machine replaced after 2.5 years (1 year warranty)as the concrete block that keeps the drum stable exploded literally and damaged the rest of the machine. This was done purely as you wouldnt have expected this to happen. I would go back to the retailer on the ground you would rightly expect it to last longer, the manual didnt say it was replaceable and mention trading standard etc dont be fobbed off with wear and tear etc etc

Rutts

25/7/2014 at 7:35pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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I just looked at the instructions. All it says is change if it won't light or becomes difficult to. No time based suggestions.
The fella wasn't interested in the slightest. The warranty period from Coleman is 2 years although, as I said, the generator isn't a warranty part. Although,again as I said, the Coleman spare parts guy (who you'd definitely class as 'in the know') said that it sounds like a faulty part.
Hopefully it'll get sorted as I need the part before next weekend as I'm camping. If not, i hope my repair lasts.
I'll see what Coleman says. If it's a no I might tap up trading standards although it's hard to prove how many times it's been used. Saying that it does look in VGC.

Thanks for the replies. It's made me feel a little better that I wasn't being completely unreasonable.

dk168

25/7/2014 at 9:15pm
Location: Devizes Wiltshire
Outfit: MWB VW Crafter PVC

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I have only used Coleman Fuel or Primus Power Fuel on mine, bought in Oct 2011, and needed to change the generator last August.

The end needle completely disintegrated by then.

When I posted about this I was informed this is not uncommon for the original generator, and the replacement may last longer.

DK

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Rutts

25/7/2014 at 9:21pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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So you got nearly two years out of it then? How many trips? I managed two,two day trips before it packed up one day into the the third trip!! :-(

Dan-w

26/7/2014 at 12:21am
Location: Kent
Outfit: Outwell Cleveland 6P

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I have no experience of the stove you are discussing however I was not overly impressed by the staff at John Cross when I visited. They had no interest in asking if I needed assistance at all and acted like I was an inconvenience when asking a few questions about one product. We did end up spending close to £500 on numerous pieces of equipment in the end, mainly as we had a trip planned the following weekend and they had everything we needed.

I will not be returning however, despite it being relatively close to me and reasonably priced.

dk168

26/7/2014 at 2:14am
Location: Devizes Wiltshire
Outfit: MWB VW Crafter PVC

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Quote: Originally posted by Rutts on 25/7/2014
So you got nearly two years out of it then? How many trips? I managed two,two day trips before it packed up one day into the the third trip!! :-(

I average 4 to 5 trips totalling about 25 nights a year.

Nearly always a cooked breakfast, and half the evening meals will be cooked on the stove, using at least 2 pans.

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the long pin and needle are also made of brass and not stainless steel.

DK

Rutts

26/7/2014 at 8:29am
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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The outer tube, neeedle and nozzle are all brass. The needle tip (Colman refer to the whole inner rod as needle) is defo stainless steel. Fitted into a hole on the end of the needle and, from the tooling marks, crimped to hold it in place.

So your generator managed a few more days than mine then?

ianclose

26/7/2014 at 11:26am
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We live about 12 miles from John's Cross and, although we have spent quite a lot with them over the past few years, IMHO they have "gone downhill" and we'd rather drive 50 miles to our next nearest decent camping shop.

I'm sure they're very nice if you're spending 56k on a new motorhome.

Hope you get the stove sorted.

Rutts

26/7/2014 at 7:32pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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Perhaps I should've ordered the 56k camper then asked for a generator. Lol.

As fir the stove. She'll live. Worst case ibhy another generator.

Rutts

29/7/2014 at 9:08pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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Well, for those of you interested. I contacted Coleman and the new generator should be arriving tomorrow. Free of charge.

Coleman=Excellent customer service

Johns Cross=J Arthur customer service.

So a good outcome in the end.

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You don't ask, you don't get!!

dk168

29/7/2014 at 9:22pm
Location: Devizes Wiltshire
Outfit: MWB VW Crafter PVC

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That's a good outcome.

Good luck with the new generator.

DK

ianclose

29/7/2014 at 11:32pm
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Glad you got sorted.

Rutts

30/7/2014 at 8:31pm
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Outfit: Vangor Astoria 800

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Yep. It arrived this morning. So a big thankyou to Coleman and BCS Camping Spares (who provide warranty spares for Coleman). The BCS guy even had time for my questions about my Coleman lantern.

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