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Subject Topic: Issue with leisure battery and coolbox
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12/11/2017 at 3:37pm
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When the voltage is down to 12.5volts, current drain will be - (42watts ÷ 12.5volts = 3.36amp/hour)

When the voltage is down to 12 volts, current drain will be - (42watts ÷ 12.0volts = 3.50amp/hour)

When the voltage is down to 11.5volts, current drain will be - (42watts ÷ 11.5volts = 3.65amp/hour)

When the voltage is down to 11 volts, current drain will be - (42watts ÷ 11.0volts = 3.80amp/hour)

At this point the appliance will have probably stopped working altogether.

Vin Blanc.


As the voltage drops in a resistive circuit the current will drop it won't increase.
It may differ in a peltier cooler but for basic ohms law if the voltage drops the current drops.
saxo1




Post last edited on 12/11/2017 15:54:35


13/11/2017 at 1:37pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 11/11/2017
Quote: Originally posted by achrn on 07/11/2017
How are you measuring battery voltage?

If you're doing it with the fridge connected, the voltage reading will be more a function of the instantaneous current draw than of the state of charge of the battery.

That is, while it is (broadly) true that you can gauge the state of charge of a lead-acid cell by measuring voltage, that's only when the battery is open-circuit (ie nothing connected, no current draw). You need to disconnect the fridge, let the cell voltage stabilise, then measure the voltage.



Wrong.

Testing a battery off load can give a totally false figure for its state of charge.

A duff battery can read 12.6v+ and yet when put under any load even 1 or 2 amps the voltage could plummet to below 11 volts.



You're talking about something different.

Specifically, you are apparently discussing a battery with a very high internal resistance (though other faults may give similar effect), which is itself a fault, but one that's not related to state of charge.

If you want to determine state-of-charge of a lead-acid battery, an open-circuit voltage is a reasonable way to do it, and a voltage test of the battery under load is most definitely not the way to do it, because (as I said) that reading will be more a function of teh current than about state-of-charge. However, state-of-charge doesn't tell you that everything is 100% tickety-boo with the battery (and I never claimed it did).

If you have your battery under load and change the load so the current reduces, the voltage will rise. If this voltage actually was proportional to state of charge, it would mean the battery has become more charged without putting any charge in (indeed, while continuing to draw charge out).

In your anecdote, it simply means the battery was near fully charged, but ALSO (in your terminology) 'duff'. I haven't said open-circuit voltage tells you anything about 'duff'iness. It does however tell you state of charge (approximately).

If you want to determine state of charge by means of voltage, the correct way to do it is with no current drawn.


13/11/2017 at 7:11pm
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So your off load test shows a large 110 battery at 12.68 volts, would you say it was well charged?

Why then will the battery only light a 20w bulb for less than 30 seconds before it dims to a glow worm?

Yes under load the battery voltage will reduce but a charged battery should not drop the voltage much, as long as your not pulling 100amps of course.

I tested a cheapy 110ah leisure battery a while back, comparing it to a 75ah car battery. A fairly heavy 10amp load, from memory i think the leisure battery had dropped to 11 something volts within 30 minutes or so. The car battery was holding 12.2 volts after 4 1/2 hours.

Leaving the leisure battery to recover the off load voltage would appear to be a good battery, but any load caused it to plummet quickly.



14/11/2017 at 12:44pm
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As the function of a leisure battery is to provide constant power over a period of time, I would say that one that dropped its voltage significantly over 30 minutes was useless and probably knackered. Especially if it can't even compete with a car starting battery which is intended to cope with huge current drain for short periods. i.e. starting a car.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


14/11/2017 at 1:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 13/11/2017
So your off load test shows a large 110 battery at 12.68 volts, would you say it was well charged?



Generally yes.

Quote:
Why then will the battery only light a 20w bulb for less than 30 seconds before it dims to a glow worm?



Because it's faulty. It may be fully charged, but faulty (internal corrosion, sulfation, bad connection, etc etc).

Saying that a battery is fully charged is not at all the same as saying that it's in good condition, has low internal resistance, or is capable of providing a particular current for a particular duration.

I haven't claimed that open circuit voltage tells you that the battery is fully operational, 100% fine, good for any and all purposes, or that it has a high capacity. I've said it tells more about state of charge than does measuring the voltage under load.


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14/11/2017 at 9:46pm
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But your test would show the battery as healthy and well charged. Someone would then wonder why it dies very quickly.

Putting the battery under load when testing will give a more accurate answer to its state of charge and health.

If the voltage drops quickly as it did with my leisure battery then the battery is either a cheap rubbish one or its past its best. Although this was a fairly new but cheap battery sold by the pallet full at my local caravan dealer.

Off load test is rather meaningless. Why test it offload when even a battery on its last legs can show 12.6+ volts?

Don't work for batteriser do you?   


14/11/2017 at 9:49pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 14/11/2017
As the function of a leisure battery is to provide constant power over a period of time, I would say that one that dropped its voltage significantly over 30 minutes was useless and probably knackered. Especially if it can't even compete with a car starting battery which is intended to cope with huge current drain for short periods. i.e. starting a car.



As mentioned above this battery was not that old but it was a budget one. I also expected it to out perform the car battery. OK 10amps was a bit heavy but it should be able to handle that.

I read somewhere that leisure batteries have been tested and some found to be less than half their rated capacity. They failed to mention names though.



15/11/2017 at 9:55am
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I have suspected for some time that some budget "leisure batteries" are just re-labelled car batteries, and I know others have said the same thing on here. Any decent leisure battery should be able to withstand a 10 amp load for longer than a car battery, which is not intended to withstand a constant load at all. Although of course many will.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


16/11/2017 at 11:46am
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 14/11/2017
But your test would show the battery as healthy and well charged. Someone would then wonder why it dies very quickly.

Putting the battery under load when testing will give a more accurate answer to its state of charge and
health.



OK. For the last time:

No, my test would NOT show that the battery was healthy and well charged. I have never claimed that it would. I've said several times that 'my' test does NOT tell you that the battery is healthy and well charged. It tells you ONLY whether it is well charged. It does NOT tell you whether it is healthy.

No, testing the voltage under load will NOT give you a more accurate answer to its state of charge and
health. It will tell you very little about its state of charge because even a fully charged battery will exhibit a voltage drop that is more a function of the current being drawn than the state of charge. This is particularly the case for 'leisure' batteries that are optimised more for multiple cycles to moderate discharge than starter batteries which are optimised for very high currents (but if you did moderately deep discharge cycles would have a very short life).

Measuring voltage under load does NOT give you a useful indication of state of charge in a lead acid battery.

Measuring voltage open circuit DOES give you a useful indication of state of charge but does NOT tell you the battery is healthy.


17/11/2017 at 7:09pm
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Have you read your own text?

If testing off load shows the batteries state of charge WHY can the battery voltage drop under load?
So you start with a well charged battery by your (incorrect) testing process and then when you goto use the battery oh no its actually almost flat.
Where is the sense in that?

If you do not test lead acid batteries under load why do all the garages and battery suppliers drop test the batteries "under load" when testing them?

Check any decent brand car battery tester and they all put the battery under load.

Are they ALL wrong?


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21/11/2017 at 10:40pm
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you can also look at adding some temperate control to the fridge to limit the amount of time its running and thus saving some juice.
I modified my 30l electric coolbox with something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Digital-Thermostat-Sensor-Temperature-Control-Switch-Module-W1209-50-110-C/162540146725?hash=item25d825d025:g:vwYAAOSwcgNZMrt~

Now I just set it to about 5 deg, and once it gets there it turns off. Saves cooling too much over night and freezing some items.
Mike



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