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Subject Topic: Motorway speed limits
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03/3/2013 at 11:07am
 Location: S Devon
 Outfit: Motorhome
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It's certainly a confusing piece of legislation. Makes the UK towing speed limits seem very sensible.

From experience, regardless of the law, the French themselves tend to go by the size of the trailer / caravan. A 'big one' is 90 km/h a 'little one' is 130 km/h. Consensus locally seemed to be our (braked) folding camper would be regarded as a 'little one.' On quiet stretches of autoroute we usually travel at nearer the upper limit.

Previously in our Focus Estate I worked out the limit to be 130 km/h, now we have a Passat estate I think technically we are limited to 90 km/h. Madness!

In Germany the situation is nearly as confusing with a higher limit available if your car and trailer meet certain criteria and you get it tested over there. 2 of our friends are German traffic police and they didn't have a clue what limit would apply to a UK registered car towing a trailer! They suggested keeping it under 110 km/h and leaving a large gap between the car in front (they are much more concerned about that than the precise speed). We followed their advice and didn't attact any unwanted attention. From memory our research indicated the limit would have been 80 km/h.



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03/3/2013 at 12:11pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit:  Unicorn Barcelona and a Discovery 3
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So lets put this into context.

A car with a puny little trailer on bouncing around (and we've all seen them) can travel at 130kh whereas a car and caravan matched as per the CC 85% with GVW over 3500kg  is limited to 90kh

No thats what I call pathetic and we are all part of the EU!!!!!!!!!

 



03/3/2013 at 12:50pm
 Location: derbys
 Outfit: Kia Sorento- Coachman 565 vip
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Blimey Steve W 77- where did you weigh your KX2- I had mine on weigh bridge, with nearly full tank of fuel, and just usual tools etc, and it came out at 1920 kgs.

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03/3/2013 at 2:16pm
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Ok, so I've read this and done some research on our 2004 Honda CR-V. On Parkers it lists the maximum Braked Towing Weight as 1500Kg and on the car's registration certificate it lists the maximum permissible mass as 1930 (I assume Kg), so that would put us at 3430kg... I am ok to think we can not worry about this?

 

Thanks

Sean

 

 



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03/3/2013 at 2:31pm
 Location: NE Scotland
 Outfit: Bailey Phoenix + CRV
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Quote: Originally posted by Seanf81 on 03/3/2013

Ok, so I've read this and done some research on our 2004 Honda CR-V. On Parkers it lists the maximum Braked Towing Weight as 1500Kg and on the car's registration certificate it lists the maximum permissible mass as 1930 (I assume Kg), so that would put us at 3430kg... I am ok to think we can not worry about this?

 

Thanks

Sean

 

 





Well have another read of the Caravan Club advice on my 2 posts on the previous page.
It looks like it's the Gross Train Mass of the towing vehicle regardless of the actual weight of the trailer which determines the speed limit for the outfit. Your CRV would have to stick to the lower speed limits when towing but I am waiting for clarification from the CC.


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03/3/2013 at 4:18pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit: Hymer Nova S
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Quote: Originally posted by Seanf81 on 03/3/2013

Ok, so I've read this and done some research on our 2004 Honda CR-V. On Parkers it lists the maximum Braked Towing Weight as 1500Kg and on the car's registration certificate it lists the maximum permissible mass as 1930 (I assume Kg), so that would put us at 3430kg... I am ok to think we can not worry about this?

 

Thanks

Sean

 

 





No you are failing to look at the only thing that matters, your actual car's weight plate, it has to have one somewhere fixed on it.
Look for the biggest figure on that, it will be called either GTM or GTW. That is the one and only figure that matters, its Gross Train Mass or weight.


04/3/2013 at 12:41pm
 Location: sunny south east!
 Outfit: Coachman
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It is a mad rule and does throw up some strange anomalies, including for us. I certainly didn;t understand it until it was explained a couple of years ago on here and it seems many still don't.

Saying all that, I personally would not want to be doing 80mph with a tonne + attached to the back of a fully loaded car with my most precious cargo onboard regardless of the law



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04/3/2013 at 4:52pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit: Hymer Nova S
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Quote: Originally posted by sunshinetours on 04/3/2013

It is a mad rule
Saying all that, I personally would not want to be doing 80mph with a tonne + attached to the back of a fully loaded car with my most precious cargo onboard regardless of the law





But I despair, with a very well matched outfit of not legally being able to do more than 50 mph on most roads and only 56 mph on motorways!
In practice if I kept to the law the lorries would be all over me and the "aggro" in all road users would not be conducive to road safety.


04/3/2013 at 5:37pm
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Quote: Originally posted by JTQU on 03/3/2013

 

 

 





No you are failing to look at the only thing that matters, your actual car's weight plate, it has to have one somewhere fixed on it.
Look for the biggest figure on that, it will be called either GTM or GTW. That is the one and only figure that matters, its Gross Train Mass or weight.


I've had a look under the bonnet and the biggest figure is the 3430 I worked out the other day - there's no GTM or GTW written nexct to it, but no other figure on the wight plate comes close, so it appears we should be ok - not that I will be going any faster than 55ish mph on the motorway, but at least we don't need to buy any stickers.

 

Thanks

Sean



04/3/2013 at 6:04pm
 Location: NE Scotland
 Outfit: Bailey Phoenix + CRV
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I have had a reply now from the Caravan Club and this seems to be the definitive answer unless anybody says different?

You still need to read it very carefully but the Example for the CRV (which is what I drive) confirms what has been said by some above but misinterpreted by others, that the weight of the caravan means nothing, it's the train weight of the towing vehicle that matters whether it tows a tiny camping trailer or a huge twin axle caravan.

.Thank you very much for your recent enquiry. Up to date information on the speed limits in France can be found here: http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/planning-your-holiday/overseas-holiday-planning/travel-essentials/compulsory-requirements/speed-limits you need to scroll down. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance. 

Best regards Hazel HavellTravel Service Information Officer

Speed limits

This information is prepared by the Caravan Club as part of its services to members. The contents are believed to be correct at the date of publication. Members should only use the information as a guide, and take note of any local limits.

Speed limit information is broken down into:

  • This information is also available as a download
    Speed limits
Country Car solo Car towing caravan/trailer
Motorways Other roads Motorways Other roads
mph kph mph kph mph kph mph kph
Austria 81 130 62 100 62 * 100 * 50 * 80*
Belgium 74 120 56 90 74 120 56 90
Croatia 81 130 56-68 90-110 56 90 50 80
Czech Republic 81 130 56 90 50 80 50 80
Denmark 68-81 110-130 50-56 80-90 50 80 44 70
France 81
++
130
++
56-68 ++ 90-110 ++ See information on next page
Germany 81 130 62 100 50 ** 80 ** 50 80
Hungary 81 130 56-68 90-110 50 80 44 70
Ireland 74 120 37-62 60-100 50 80 37-50 60-80
Italy 81 130 56-68 90-110 50 80 44 70
Luxembourg 81 130 56 90 56 90 47 75
Netherlands 74 + 120+ 50-56 80-90 56* 90* 50-56* 80-90*
Norway 56-68 90-100 50 80 50 80 50 80
Portugal 74 120 56-62 90-100 62 100 44-50 70-80
Slovenia 81 130 56-62 90-100 50 80 50 80
Spain 74 120 56-62 90-100 50 80 44-50 70-80
Sweden *** 56-74 90-120 44-62 70-100 50 80 44-50 70-80
Switzerland 74 120 50-62 80-100 50  80  50
**** 
80
****

Speed limits when towing a caravan/trailer in France

 

Motorways

Other Roads

Gross train mass of car/vehicle:
mph kph mph kph
- under 3.5t 81++ 130++ 56-68++ 90-110++
- over 3.5t 56 90 50-56

80-90

Notes

*If the combined weight of the car and caravan is over 3.5t then the speed limit is the same as a motor caravan over 3.5t

**There is an option to drive at 100kph if your car and caravan passes a TUV test in Germany. The test costs approximately €70 and takes two hours to complete.

***Speed limits in Sweden are determined by the quality and safety of the road, so speed limits vary. Speed limit signs are numerous, if in doubt drive at the lowest limit.

**** If the caravan/trailer weights over 1000 kg speed limit reduces to 37mph / 60kph

+ A new speed limit of 81mph/130kph is being tested on certain motorway sections (which will be signposted) from March 2011.

++ In adverse weather conditions or rain these limits reduce to 110kph and
80-100kph

Working out gross train mass

To work out the gross train mass of your car/vehicle, you need to add the fully laden weight of your car to your car's towing limit:

Example

Honda CR-V 2.2 i-CTDI SE
Gross vehicle weight -2160kg
Towing limit - 2000kg
Gross train mass - 4160kg

  • If you tow any trailer/caravan behind this car you will need to tow at the lower speed limit regardless of how much your caravan/trailer weighs.
  • If the Honda is towing a caravan weighing 1000kg (total weight of 3160kg) the lower speed limit will still apply, because the gross train mass is over 3500kg.

It has been confirmed that cars towing caravans and trailers are not listed in the original legislation which requires vehicles to display speed stickers (80kph and 90kph), so there is no legal requirement to display them.

However, from a safety point of view members may still like to consider attaching them as it alerts drivers behind you that you are limited to a lower speed limit, as although speed stickers are not required, the above speed limits do apply. Speed stickers can be purchased from www.speedstickers.co.uk telephone: 0800 988 7329.

General Advice and information

In most towns, villages, and built up areas there is a speed limit of 30mph/50kph, however, in some areas, near schools for example, this limit can drop to 18mph/30kph, and these lower limits will normally be signed posted.

In some European countries when you drive through a town or village the speed limit is not necessarily sign posted, instead the village name will be displayed on a rectangular sign with a red border as you enter the village, when you exit you will see a similar sign with black border and a red diagonal line through it, you are required to drive at 30mph in-between the two signs.

In nearly all European countries it is illegal to use car navigation systems which actively search for mobile speed cameras or interfere with police equipment (laser or radar detection). Car navigation systems which give a warning of fixed speed camera locations are legal in most countries with the exception of France, Germany and Switzerland where this function must be de-activated.

 



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04/3/2013 at 6:14pm
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To work out the gross train mass of your car/vehicle, you need to add the fully laden weight of your car to your car's towing limit:

Example

Honda CR-V 2.2 i-CTDI SE
Gross vehicle weight -2160kg
Towing limit - 2000kg
Gross train mass - 4160kg

    If you tow any trailer/caravan behind this car you will need to tow at the lower speed limit regardless of how much your caravan/trailer weighs.
    If the Honda is towing a caravan weighing 1000kg (total weight of 3160kg) the lower speed limit will still apply, because the gross train mass is over 3500kg.

Am I being dense? If the caravan is 1000kg why is the GTM not 3160kg instead of the theoretical 4160?


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04/3/2013 at 6:19pm
 Location: Northern Ireland
 Outfit: Swift Challenger 570 & Santa Fe
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Am I being dense? If the caravan is 1000kg why is the GTM not 3160kg instead of the theoretical 4160?

Because you must go by the weight that's on the "Plate", not the load that's on the trailer.



04/3/2013 at 6:50pm
 Location: NE Scotland
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Quote: Originally posted by SGThomas on 04/3/2013

Am I being dense? If the caravan is 1000kg why is the GTM not 3160kg instead of the theoretical 4160?

Nope you are not being dense, you are being sensible and practical. but unfortunately that ain't the law.

Methinks it makes it easy to enforce the way it is because a policeman with a speed detector (or indeed a fixed camera) can quickly decide if an offence has been committed without having to check the weight of a trailer or caravan combination etc which can be open to dispute, whereas the GTM is clearly defined and can't be disputed.  They will easily decide the likely GTM of an approaching vehicle from experience and would only need to check borderline cases.

I guess the best that can be hoped for is that the law is enforced sensibly and with discretion and that the driver (or his wife if he is a Politician :0)  ) of a Landrover or similar is not prosecuted if towing a bit too fast with a fairly light small trailer.

A speed camera in France which usually takes a pic from the front, might not see a wee trailer behind a big tow-car anyway.  The radar device looks for the approaching mass and decides if it should be at the lower limit - if it is, and it's over the limit, it takes a pic and you get a flash. (It usually only picks up big vans, lorries campervans and caravans being drawn) It shouldn't pick up a wee trailer behind the mass of a Landrover so it shouldn't recognise it as requiring the lower limit. (That's how it used to work anyway.)

It will be interesting to hear from anyone who falls foul of the law. 

 



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