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Topic: Le Havre Police, Seat Belts

VWT4Transporter

18/7/2013 at 8:26am
Location: Hants
Outfit: VW T4 Home conversion

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Back from our trip to Southern France a week or two ago. Portsmouth-Le Havre
I have a self build High top VW T4. Only have seat belt on the Drivers and passengers seat as we have a side bench seat that converts to a bed.
I had my friend with us laying on the rear bench seat as we left the boat. The wait for Passport control was usually quick but this time I could see they had stopped a lot of what looked like home builds and were hauling people out and examining the vans
AS we got to Passport control a huge French Plod takes a good look in the back of the camper and asks me to get out.
He says I have no seat belts in the rear of the van and that it is illegal in France to drive with someone in the back. I stated quite rightly that EU law states that any vehicle legally on the road in the UK is legally allowed to be on the road in the EU and UK law does not require rear seat belts for Home built vans.
He went off on one, raving away in French untill his superior, a lady plod comes over. She repeated what he said, I repeated what I said. Then I thought I would try something and said I was only taking my friend to Le Mans.
She then said at this time it would be OK but if we came through Le Havre again with a passenger we would be sent back.
Good Old French who totally ignore the EU Law and enforce their own

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mikegalagher

18/7/2013 at 9:24am
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Just taken the rear seats out of our car for loading space.

So got seat belts in the back, but no seats.

That'll flummox them

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Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017

cliffystephens

18/7/2013 at 9:59pm
Location: welsh
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why would you not want seat belts ??????????....

VWT4Transporter

19/7/2013 at 3:00pm
Location: Hants
Outfit: VW T4 Home conversion

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Quote: Originally posted by cliffystephens on 18/7/2013
why would you not want seat belts ??????????....

A) because we have side mounted seats and seat belts are not recommended for side seats
B) because there are only 2 of us
C) I dont like the damned things

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lovebearlake

20/7/2013 at 8:07am
Location: berkshire
Outfit: Bell tent

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Side facing seats are not recommended either, or so I thought. We had side ones in our old Landy and I tried to find info about them it seems they are phasing them out and opting for forward only.

What guidelines did your insurance company give. Ours wouldn't cover having the kids in them, belts or not.

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bigtoe

20/7/2013 at 8:17am
Location: Chateau du Wirral
Outfit: VW T4 and quechua base second

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Quote: Originally posted by VWT4Transporter on 19/7/2013

Quote: Originally posted by cliffystephens on 18/7/2013why would you not want seat belts ??????????....

A) because we have side mounted seats and seat belts are not recommended for side seats
B) because there are only 2 of us
C) I dont like the damned things

We don't have seat belts in the back of our Vito for the same reasons. The seat is full width, converts into a bed (its a converted ikea job) and is used on holiday rather than as a passenger seat whilst driving.

I don't know what it is about LeHavre. We got stopped there with many others in May and were asked to open the van rear doors. The policeman takes a look at a load of camping stuff in the back then waves us on. I really cant see the point. The gold bullion was slightly better hidden than that!

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John

May/June.....France
Aug.......somewhere else in France

VWT4Transporter

20/7/2013 at 8:26am
Location: Hants
Outfit: VW T4 Home conversion

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Quote: Originally posted by lovebearlake on 20/7/2013
Side facing seats are not recommended either, or so I thought. We had side ones in our old Landy and I tried to find info about them it seems they are phasing them out and opting for forward only.

What guidelines did your insurance company give. Ours wouldn't cover having the kids in them, belts or not.

My side facing bench seat is there there for sitting on when were eating,and for opening up and making our 6'X4'double bed, not for travelling on as there's only two of us

My Insurance company wasnt interested as the Insurance was for a 2 seater Campervan

Fortunatley our kids are grown and gone, and we dont want any more (not that we could have them anyway)

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themarstonscooper

22/7/2013 at 9:26am
Location: Cheshire
Outfit: Volvo V70 Swift 570

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Sorry to say but the traffic laws in france can be different ti the Uk and are. You say
....... I stated quite rightly that EU law states that any vehicle legally on the road in the UK is legally allowed to be on the road in the EU and UK law does not require rear seat belts for Home built vans.....

Is not quite correct. As an example a vehicle would be legally on the road in this country with a new tyre and a 2mm tyre on same axle yet it would be illegal on French roads. EU counties are allowed to to impose different laws on vehicles. The devil is in the detail, the vehicle is fine, items fitted or not to the vehicle and how its operated are not...
As a further example and more relevant a child may travel in the front of a car with appropriate seat adjustment in UK in France they cannot. Again in Spain anything over 12M must display a marker board or two at the rear In France that is not compulsory but its ok to display it, in this country its against the law. So anyone going to Spain has to put the thing on whilst in France and remove on way back before the UK.

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Mark

Uttoxeter (Race days)
Le Serignan Plage (clothed one) August and Scheveningen on way back

ianwralph

22/7/2013 at 11:30am
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Correct me if I am wrong. "My Insurance company wasnt interested as the Insurance was for a 2 seater Campervan" Surely having a third person in transit would nullify the insurance.

griff10553

22/7/2013 at 11:43am
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Quote: Originally posted by ianwralph on 22/7/2013
Correct me if I am wrong. "My Insurance company wasnt interested as the Insurance was for a 2 seater Campervan" Surely having a third person in transit would nullify the insurance.

That was also my thought.

Griff

Ina

22/7/2013 at 5:42pm
Location: Lancashire
Outfit: Coachman 460 VIP; VW Tiguan

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Quote: Originally posted by VWT4Transporter on 18/7/2013
I stated quite rightly that EU law states that any vehicle legally on the road in the UK is legally allowed to be on the road in the EU and UK law does not require rear seat belts for Home built vans.

Good Old French who totally ignore the EU Law and enforce their own

Isn't it the case that French law is applicable in France, UK law in the UK, therefore what may be legal in the UK is not necessarily so in France.

Same principle applies with alcohol and driving: in the UK it is 0.8 mg per ml, yet in France it is only 0.5 mg per ml. I doubt very much that you could persuade a French plod that it is legal to have 0.8 mg in the UK, therefore the same applies in France.

Whatever country you are in, the law of that country applies, whatever it is.

-------------
Ina

Don't forget to leave a review of the French and other European campsites you have visited!

VWT4Transporter

24/7/2013 at 9:27am
Location: Hants
Outfit: VW T4 Home conversion

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IF you'd care to take a look at EU law, it states quite categorically, that any Vehicle which is legally on the road in one member state, (Legal by way of Tax, Insurance and MOT) is legal in all member states of the EU. It is the Vehicle itself that the law applies to, so it does not apply to additions to that basic vehicle including trailers, baby seats etc and the law applies to the Basic vehicle only. Local Laws apply to Baby seats etc.

I and others have been through this in some serious detail when attempting to get several Kit Cars Homologated in France.

As for Insurance? I spoke to my Insurers about this and they accepted that the vehicle had 2 forward facing permanent seats and a Bench seat which may occasionally be used by a passenger. Their response was that so long as it was legal for a person to sit in the back the insurance was valid. As we very rarely carry anyone in the back we were happy with their response.

cliffystephens

24/7/2013 at 10:52pm
Location: welsh
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and you put first post on here for "what" remind me please..........................

happybonzo

25/7/2013 at 7:13am
Location: Ndidis Kraal
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I've found that if a Policeman wants to get awkward then they will. You can always appeal afterwards. Remember, as far as they are concerned, they have the Law on their side

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