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Subject Topic: Caravan scrappage scheme
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14/6/2009 at 10:05am
 Location: north wales
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With the british caravan industry struggling, why don't the government start a scheme like they have done for cars?

Brian



14/6/2009 at 10:26am
 Location: Norwich Norfolk
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Because it's not struggling... More and more people are buying caravans than ever before!


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14/6/2009 at 10:53am
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Caravanning is a minority sport so its unlikely to happen. Nowt wrong with my 21yr old Eriba tho, it will last for another 20yrs!


14/6/2009 at 11:29am
 Location: Herts
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That's a good idea but aren't they going to "scrap" the idea anyway because they are running out of money for it?

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14/6/2009 at 1:40pm
 Location: north wales
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'Because it's not struggling... More and more people are buying caravans than ever before! '

Quite a few firms have shut down and most of the others have laid workers off.  Also one of ( if not the ) biggest retailers in the country is in administration.    There is a boom in static holidays.

Brian



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14/6/2009 at 3:30pm
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I think the truth is Fleetwood and Avondale shutting down was nothing to do with this 'recession', both being planned long before.
Swift have up'ed production to cope, their stock yard is empty! straight off the production line straight to dealers.
Perhaps not as good as the last few years maybe, but I'm sure ok thank you!

Discover Leisure as I understand was an experiment in selling caravans like cars in supermarkets, such as the owners had originally made their money at?.
Maybe Discover would have done better without a recession, but no other dealer I've spoken to is struggling, unless it's getting their hands on something to sell that is!
Main reason for that is an ultra strong market for new buyers is mismatched by slower new van sales, this giving them less trade-in's to resell.





14/6/2009 at 4:00pm
 Location: Near Alton Towers
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Good point well made Gary.

Dave.



14/6/2009 at 4:07pm
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Why on earth should the tax payer be expected to fund someone's leisure activities...?

People need cars so as to be able to do everday things and to go to work. Personaly I also don't believe that the tax payer should fund car scrappage either, but in this case the argument for is probably slightly stronger than the argument against.

As for Discover, well they were destined to fail the moment that their stock market flotation was largely ignored by everyone that buys shares. The Dixon family have a history of failed projects and this one turned out to be no different than that of Dixon Car sales.

It's just a pity that several smaller companies that were all probably making a profit were swallowed up and sprayed down the pan.



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14/6/2009 at 4:07pm
 Location: north wales
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'Swift have up'ed production to cope, their stock yard is empty! straight off the production line straight to dealers.'

Its picking up this year but swift group reduced their workforce by 365 in 2008.  It was 1000 strong at the start of the year.  It might be why they are struggling to meet new demand and their yards are empty.

Brian



14/6/2009 at 4:10pm
 Location: north wales
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'Why on earth should the tax payer be expected to fund someone's leisure activities...?'

Nobody would want this, but on the other hand it is a shame to lose industries simply because the mismanagement of banks has caused a global recession.  As has been proved down the years once they have gone they seldom get re-established.

Brian



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14/6/2009 at 4:21pm
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So if I mismanage my Credit Card should I also be bailed out...?

I hear what you are saying, but the problem is very deeply rooted in successive Governments Corporate taxation policies. In an ideal world, every company would have the years excess profits in the bank and as such would have a cash pot to weather any storm. However, taxation policies stop this from happening as any company that keeps money aside is heavily taxed on it. The only way to stop this taxation is by either finding areas to reinvest in or by making dividend payments to share holders. There is NO incentive for any Ltd company to keep cash at the bank to see out a rainy day. The Government doesn't want companies to stockpile cash as doing so stops the share holders from spending it and by doing so, spreading the wealth.

So that takes us back to the tax payer. As usual under our mildly socialist labour government the failures by the State are largely paid for by the unwashed masses that are the tax paying general public.

A change in Taxation policy would enable companies to hold a rainy day reserve without being punished for doing so. This in turn would help to protect those companies that walk a fine line between debt and profit. In particular the caravan industry as unlike the car industry where new cars are built to order, in the caravan industry all vans are bought by the dealers and then sold on to the consumers.

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14/6/2009 at 4:43pm
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The scrappage scheme was brought about primarily to get older and supposedly higher polluting vehicles off the road as part of a green policy, rather than to assist flagging new car sales. In practice, the scrappage scheme is proving to be of little use to the consumer. There was an article on Radio 2 on Thursday or Friday afternoon highlighting the fact that many motor manufacturers are milking the savings off the scrappage for themselves via the finance. Several companies are offering 0% interest on new cars, with some of the highest interest rates being under 5%. The same dealers are offering the same car at interest rates ranging between 6 and 10% to those customers using the scrappage deals. The conclusion that was reached was that the saving of £2000 could actually end up costing as much as £6000 if you pay on finance due to the extra interest you pay. The only manufacturere who were not doing this if I recall correctly were Renault.

Therefore, the scrappage scheme is not going to happen to caravans because they are not really polluting in themselves (ok there is a degree of pollution caused by the actual towing and the heating etc which could be reduced, though newer vans are generally heavier so increase the pollution caused by towing over that of a mid 1990s van, but the Department of Transport are not bright enough to see it that way.) and even if they did introduce a similar scheme for caravans, then there is a good chance the only people to benefit are the dealers and Black Horse who finance most of the caravans sold in the UK. Lloyds TSB / HBOS have already had enough tax payers money.


14/6/2009 at 5:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Kabbes on 14/6/2009
Nowt wrong with my 21yr old Eriba tho, it will last for another 20yrs!
Nothing wrong with my 20-year old Mardon either, it'll still be around when many of the newer ones have fallen apart from damp! 17 And even I was given a couple of grand 'incentive' to scrap it there's no way I could afford to buy a new one.

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14/6/2009 at 7:34pm
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'So if I mismanage my Credit Card should I also be bailed out...?'

Should money be used to help car sales during a recession or should farmers have subsidies all the time?  If there is going to be a total capitalist sink or swim situation then a lot of small business grants could be scrapped and we could get rid of a lot of quangos and development agencies. 

I don't think the scrappage scheme for cars was a good idea  in the first place.  A tougher MOT would have the same effect.

Brian



14/6/2009 at 7:39pm
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They pitched the car scheme wrongly at10 year old cars. Many cars that old are worth more than 2K anyway. Only smaller cheaper cars have been traded in, and then for small cheap cars, so it hasn't helped the industry at all.

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14/6/2009 at 7:44pm
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Quote: Originally posted by ashwellgirl on 14/6/2009
That's a good idea but aren't they going to "scrap" the idea anyway because they are running out of money for it?


I cant remember the figure, but the scheme had a limited fund from the outset, it was to run until next march, or until said pot of money ran out whichever is sooner.

the 2 dealerships near me seem to be doing ok, their second hand stock is changing at least weekly, if not more, and there been plenty of pickups of new vans at one too.



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