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I have seen the article, but there has been little evidence to corroborate the use of 'knockout gasses'.  One senior anaesthetist stated it was very unlikely ether was used as it would be hard to use even in a controlled environment and more exotic anaesthetics  need skill to use and are very expensive.

They say themselves it could have been lack of sleep that made them tired.  If it was that easy to knock people out with sprays you would expect banks etc. to be hit as well.

There has been posts before which generated discussions such as this one.

Brian

Yep agree with Brian, I saw this on the news and thought its only a matter of time before it appears on here lol.  If it was that easy to make people sleepy anaesthetists wouldn't have to study for years and years.

Ali

Another urban mith

Wish people weren't so gullible!

It's a response to a letter from Mr. Brian Kirby of O&A forums addressed to the Royal College of Anaethetists.

"Since this debate rattles on from time to time, with much deliberation over how and what, I thought I'd try to get an expert view on the feasibility of using narcotic gases to knock out the occupants of motorhomes/caravans.

Since they do this all the time, so to speak, I thought I'd ask the Royal College of Anaesthetists. Somewhat to my surprise, they provided the following reply. Interesting isn't it? Sleep tight folks!

Dear Mr Kirby,

Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are not the first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical Advisor, has given the following previous comments:

"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day.

There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are almost odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the effect you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief unless he was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent which is not available outside the KGB!

Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking about is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you talk about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or cases of serious brain damage to have been reported."

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,

Ms Shirani Nadarajah
General Administrator

Professional Standards Directorate
The Royal College of Anaesthetists""

Dave101 for now I'll stick with what the anaesthetist says thanks all the same!  There is absolutely no proof that a sleeping gas has been used in any of these cases and even more odd is that nobody has died.  Seemingly huge quantities of something are being used to gas them regardless of their body weights or state of health without a single fatality!

Why haven't the Police in the various countries tested the motorhomes/railway carriages and identified a substance?  AFAIK this has never been done.  Also vehicles have many vents out of which such substances would escape and the sheer quantity and cost of such gases would far outweigh the bounty elicited in most cases.

Ali

A more likely explanation is the over use of good cheap red wine.

When in france, usually by 11pm whatever van I end up in could be robbed by a team of world war 2 air raid sirens playing the drums, and I would no nothing of it hehehe

I dont know if the stories involving caravanners are"urban myths" or not.

The train stories are not myths.

In our foolish younger days we walked in the Alps every summer.

We took the night sleeper from Gare de Lyon to Chamonix.This was a long journey and used to have very few guards on board.

There were some cases of theives boarding the train at one of the few stops or slow sections in the early hours and robbing luggage etc.

When we travelled every carriage had at least one guard and they checked the train after each stop.We were advised to keep all windows closed on the journey for this very reason.

Of course you could have your pocket picked on the bus or in the services etc.

If there were no risks what would be the point of travelling anyway?

Personally i feel safer abroad than in the streets of Newport on a weekend night

Terry

That robberies happen is not a myth, but the method used has not been proven to involve anaesthetic gases of any sort.  Just think how much you would need to fill a train cabin or carriage, how would you carry that onto the train without being noticed?

Ali

Quote: Originally posted by themeldrews on 18/6/2009

Personally i feel safer abroad than in the streets of Newport on a weekend night

Terry

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It seems that the opinion of a consultant anaesthetist who spends his whole life working in this field isn't enough.  In 2002 chechen rebels took 850 hostages in Moscow.  Russian forces tried to 'knock out' all of the hostages and their captors.  The agent they used killed 128 of the hostages.

Do the soviet intelligence services and consultant anaesthetists know less about this subject then a few scroats in France?

Brian 

This spray has been around for years truck drivers have been robbed with this stuff by spaying it in air vents and roof hatchs.i no many euro truck drivers and two that have been robbed like this that are mates of mine, they both had load robbed money taken phones keys anything thats with a euro/pound it does happen.