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Subject Topic: When "New for Old" Isn`t!!! Caravan Club
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07/11/2010 at 7:09pm
 Location: Surrey & New Forest
 Outfit: Fleetwood Heritage
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Having had Caravan Club “New for Old” insurance for the last 2 years we are now faced with having to make our first claim.  This is due to a major over-voltage being put through the 2 year old caravan by the site electricians – so should be 3rd party de-frayable.

We could have claimed direct from the site itself – but after discussing with their Loss Adjustor he recommended we use our own insurance – since the site insurance would only pay out “like-for-like” replacing our caravan with a similar 2 year old model – roughly £13,000 worth.  He said it would also be quicker to go via our own insurers.

Since we use the caravan almost every weekend we need a fast solution!

However, a conversation with the Insurance Assessor appointed via the Caravan Club Insurance brokers seems to indicate that “new for old” doesn’t mean what we thought it did! 

Instead of taking our 2 estimates (roughly £12,000 - £13,000)– which put the caravan as un-repairable against its market value ie £13,000- the Caravan Club Insurance Assessor is saying that they would be prepared to fund repairs up to the full policy value of cover for a NEW replacement ie £23,500 less its salvage value roughly 35-40% ie £6,000 leaving a total of £17,500 for repairs!

We find it hard to believe that they are prepared to spend MORE than the market value on a van – to avoid having to actually give us a NEW caravan for our OLD caravan – which is what we expected.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?  URGENT HELP NEEDED!

Lee & Trish

 



07/11/2010 at 7:41pm
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Presumably the assessor believes your caravan can be repaired more cheaply. Is there any visible damage to caravan, ie charring? I find it difficult to believe its not possible to rewire the 240v side of a caravan in say, 3 working days & if the salvage value is £6k then it could obviously be repaired for much less than £13k.


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07/11/2010 at 8:29pm
 Location: Milton Keynes
 Outfit: Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome
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Lee and Trish

I don't really understand what has happened to your van. Is it only the electrics which are damaged or has it caused major structural damage?

David



07/11/2010 at 8:39pm
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£13K to re-wire a van? You`re having a larf!

Unless as Tentz says there is visible damage and charring, you could re-wire ALL 230V and 12V systems several times over and replace all the appliances with new and still have thousands left over.

"New for old" (i.e replace or repair) tends to be at the insurers discretion - they will decide what is financially best for them, and if the van is repaired to a satisfactory state then they have fulfilled their obligation.

Without real evidence to back up the £12-13K repair bill, the OP may get accused of trying to offload an obsolete van from an obsolete manufacturer (knowing you can`t get another replacement), thereby resulting in them having a van from a current manufacturer with a massively greater re-sale appeal.


07/11/2010 at 8:46pm
 Location: NW of Glasgow
 Outfit: Sterling Searcher 2008 Volvo XC90
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I too had puzzled over this from your original post.

Unless appliances such as the fridge were affected, I do not see a problem with repairing the electrics, I was surprised that it would be a write-off.

Rewiring the van is not that tricky, most of the wiring is, or could be, run under the bunks/through cupboards.

It may take time, but the cost of materials (if no appliances are affected) is pretty minimal.

On a fairly new van, I would have thought a repair was absolutely less expensive than scrapping the van.

-------------
Jennifer


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07/11/2010 at 9:00pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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This is a most unfortunate case, especially as the problems with your van are completely not of your own making. However, with claims there are a number of issues to consider first before any advice can be given. Hard as it may sound we have firstly to consider whether you have omitted to do something in relation to the insurance cover you have

 

First: The CC insurance will pay out either the market value or limit of indemnity – It is vital each time that insurance is renewed that we lift the limit of cover to the right new for old level. What did you stipulate in your application for renewal as the value of the van? If you stipulated a value for the van at a level lower than its new replacement value than all you are entitled to is the “limit of indemnity” you have stipulated.

  

Second: Was the van protected by the security devices required by the policy? Matters not in terms of preventing the electrical surge but the policy requires you to have the relevant security devices in place.

 

So, let’s assume that you had the right level of financial cover and devices in place, then what? Was the caravan actually destroyed? It had to be for you to get new for old. Is the assessor saying that the van is not destroyed and can be repaired? He is entitled to put that view forward. New for old does not mean that you get that everytime. It depends on the circumstances. 

 

With a van worth £13,000 and repairs at £13,000 that does not mean that the van is not repairable. It may not in most circumstances be economical, but it is still repairable.

 

Lets now look at your storage owners position. Its insurers have merely set out to you the level of cover the owner has. You can still claim off his insurers for the sum he is covered for and then off the owner, personally, for any losses over and above what the insurers pay out. Put a claim in to the owner for the full replacement value cost and tell him to sort out with his insurers just how they apportion the debt between them. At the same time keep going with your own insurance claim through the CC until you get the deal sorted one way or the other. Just check your storage contract first as many indicate that you have to your insurance for claims, rather than claim off the storage company. Mind you the Unfair Contract Terms Act probably negates that as a way out for the storage company.

 

Phil

 

 

 



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


07/11/2010 at 10:22pm
 Location: Llanidloes Powys
 Outfit: Skoda Yeti SEL4x4 +Bailey Ranger 460-4
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Before anyone can really answer your "problem" we need to know exactly what needs replacing in the van. I am presuming:

all 240v wiring
fridge
water heater
battery charger.

Has the wiring scorched ot melted anything?

If it is just that, then I cannot see your van being a "total loss" as the repair costs should be less than the market value of the van.

Certainly when we insured our new van last year I was asked if I wanted "new for old" cover, but when I looked at the terms and conditions it only applied in those circumstances, such as a major accident or fire where the van was destroyed, and not where there was "peripheral" damage.


07/11/2010 at 10:49pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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 "it only applied in those circumstances, such as a major accident or fire where the van was destroyed, and not where there was "peripheral" damage"

Exactly. We have new for old and it only applies when the van is totally wrecked e.g smashed to bits by a passing lorry; burnt to a cinder etc. If it is damaged and can  be repaired then that is what we get. Just like house contents insurance. We had a claim under that years back and some stuff was repaired and other stuff was replaced new for old after our little flood.

Phil



-------------
If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


07/11/2010 at 11:21pm
 Location: Surrey & New Forest
 Outfit: Fleetwood Heritage
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Sorry - tried to keep original post brief - but see you need more info so....

Both 240v and 12v wiring looms damaged - need replacing complete. All wiring accesories switches sockets etc have had an excess voltage - they are rated at 300vAC they've had 440v put through them. Bonus plug in system fuseboard and charger burnt out. leisure battery is fried. Alde boiler failed. fridge, microwave plus almost everything electrical that was on line, solar panels, alarm systems etc etc the list goes on! We even had phone chargers melted in the sockets!

BTW I am an Electrical contractor!

Both caravan repair quotes - and indeed the Assessor - have agreed everything needs fully replacing for safety purposes.  They are all in agreement that the total cost may be in excess of the market value of the caravan.  The difference is the repairers don't think its a viable job - whereas the Assessor sees it as viable because it will come in at less money than a replacement new caravan.

We just wanted to know if anyone else had experienced a similar reaction?

BTW The caravan wasn't in storage - it was seasonally pitched and we were using it at the time - luckily no one was in the caravan when it occured!



07/11/2010 at 11:44pm
 Location: Llanidloes Powys
 Outfit: Skoda Yeti SEL4x4 +Bailey Ranger 460-4
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The only thing you can do, in that case is attempt to negotiate for a full replacement, but I would be looking very closely at the exact T & C's of your Policy.


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08/11/2010 at 7:12am
 Location: Essex
 Outfit: Lunar Delta TS 2017
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What I don't understand is why are you claiming on your insurance? Surely if it's the site electricians fault you should be claiming on their insurance?


08/11/2010 at 8:00am
 Location: Polesworth Warwickshire
 Outfit: Bailey Unicorn III Valencia (LR Disco)
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If you have not already done so, point out to the loss adjusters that they would be saving money by supplying you with a new van.



-------------
David


08/11/2010 at 8:19am
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Does your caravan insurance include 'legal expenses'? If so, this will pay for somebody to work on your behalf to get the best deal.


08/11/2010 at 8:29am
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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First offers from assessors tend to be low to "test the water". Its a fight sometimes and I am afraid that is part of the "game".

Have a very close look at the Ts and Cs of the policy to find any relevant clauses that assist your cause and quote them back at the assessor. Push the total destroyed argument and an entitlement to new for old. Try suggesting that you may refer the matter to the insurance ombudsman (the CC insurers are part of the scheme.)

Phil



-------------
If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


08/11/2010 at 8:33am
 Location: Polesworth Warwickshire
 Outfit: Bailey Unicorn III Valencia (LR Disco)
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..... (following on from my previous post)..... on the other hand,  if the market value of your van is £13,000 and the estimated cost of repair is £12-13,000, it would cost the CC more to replace the van (i.e. if the Market value of your present van is £13,000, a new van might be £16,000 now ?)  As your van is not a total loss, and therefore can be repaired, and the Insurance are not obliged to pay New for Old except if it is a total loss, it would be in the insurance company's best interest to pay £12-13,000 rather than £16,000.  If I have understood the situation correctly.

-------------
David


08/11/2010 at 8:42am
 Location: Polesworth Warwickshire
 Outfit: Bailey Unicorn III Valencia (LR Disco)
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 08/11/2010
First offers from assessors tend to be low to "test the water". Its a fight sometimes and I am afraid that is part of the "game".

Have a very close look at the Ts and Cs of the policy to find any relevant clauses that assist your cause and quote them back at the assessor. Push the total destroyed argument and an entitlement to new for old. Try suggesting that you may refer the matter to the insurance ombudsman (the CC insurers are part of the scheme.)

Phil


I agree with Phil, for the most part - he's the expert.  After saying that, my experience when we had a total loss (again CC Insurers) was that I told them what I wanted together with the two options of retailers to go through, and as far as I was concerned, there was no suggestion of testing the water.  It all went through according to my suggestions and we got our new van about 5 weeks after the other was stolen.  I suppose the difference is that ours was a complete loss.  I have to say, I found the CC insurance and the loss adjusters very supportive and sympathetic.

-------------
David



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