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 Topic: poor customer service
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23/9/2013 at 2:18pm
Location: Derbyshire
Outfit: Adria Altea 542DT
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I think you would be better off speaking to Trading Standards. They should let you know exactly what you need to do in this situation.
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23/9/2013 at 3:04pm
Location: Cornwall
Outfit: Pilote Explorateur
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Greetings,
With all the respect I can muster and for the benefit of ALL readers, your complaint is with Glossop Caravans as the seller to you.
It has NOTHING to do with the manufacturer of the goods WHATEVER THEY ARE, The Sale of Goods Act is very clear on this.
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How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!
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23/9/2013 at 9:14pm
Location: Nottinghamshire
Outfit: Sprite Alpine 2 Caravan
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I agree as above, your contract is with the retailer. Speak to Trading Standards.
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David
Chillax, you're caravaning
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24/9/2013 at 10:00am
Location: Wirral
Outfit: Sunncamp 350se 2009.
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You're not entitled to a refund, but the supplier - Glossop Caravans has to either repair or replace the awning.
The mistake you made was going directly to the manufacturers, no matter what Glossop Caravans say, it's up to them to put the situation right.
Just insist they either repair or replace.
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24/9/2013 at 10:56am
Location: Yeadon Leeds!
Outfit: Swift Challenger & Defender 110SW
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I must say, I have been in this situation as well, not with this company, but another, my new awning had a fault with a zip, the company I bought it off didnt want to know, and I had to deal direct with the manufacturer, pyramid,
To be honest, it took a while to get to the right person, and they sorted it out pretty quickly, first with new zip pulls, then when that didnt work a full new canvas
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24/9/2013 at 11:56am
Location: Llangennech Nr Llanelli S Wales.
Outfit: VW Touareg & Swift Charisma 635
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I think the problem you now have is that the awning you currently have was not supplied to you by Glossop.
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24/9/2013 at 1:09pm
Location: Worcestershire
Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by scarletsfan on 24/9/2013
I think the problem you now have is that the awning you currently have was not supplied to you by Glossop.
The original contract was with Glossop and is still in place for 6 whole years.
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24/9/2013 at 1:37pm
Location: Llangennech Nr Llanelli S Wales.
Outfit: VW Touareg & Swift Charisma 635
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 24/9/2013
Quote: Originally posted by scarletsfan on 24/9/2013
I think the problem you now have is that the awning you currently have was not supplied to you by Glossop.
The original contract was with Glossop and is still in place for 6 whole years.
The contract may be in place, but the awning they bought from Glossop is not.
Say you bought a TV from Currys which you thought was faulty and you got replacement direct from Toshiba.
If the replacement you got directly from Toshiba was also faulty would you expect Currys to replace it?
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24/9/2013 at 1:48pm
Location: rugby
Outfit: Bailey Pegasus+642
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Have a look at this.
Sale of Goods Act Quick Facts
Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
Q1. What is an inherent fault?
Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 [or some other number] days after purchase?
Q3. Do all goods have to last six (or five) years?
Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?
Q5. After the "reasonable time has passed", what can I do?
Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?
Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt?
Q8. Can I claim a refund on sale items?
Q9. Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?
Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?
Q11. The retailer has claimed that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?
Q12. Neither repair nor replacement are possible. What can I do?
Q13. What will the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?
Q14. Where can I get further advice?
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Q1. What is an inherent fault?
A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.
Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 (or some other figure) days after purchase?
No. Depending on circumstances, you might be too late to have all your money back after this time, but the trader will still be liable for any breaches of contract, such as the goods being faulty. In fact, the trader could be liable to compensate you for up to six years.
Q3. Are all goods supposed to last six (or five) years?
No, that is the limit for bringing a court case in England and Wales (five years from the time of discovery in Scotland's case). An item only needs to last as long as it is reasonable to expect it to, taking into account all the factors. An oil filter would usually not last longer than a year but that would not mean it was unsatisfactory.
Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?
The law does not specify a precise time as it will vary for most sales contracts as all the factors need to be taken into account to be fair to all sides. The pair of everyday shoes may only have a few days before the period expires but a pair of skis, purchased in a Summer Sale, may be allowed a longer period by a court.
Q5. After the "reasonable time" has passed, what can I do?
You may seek damages, which would be the amount of money necessary to have the goods repaired or replaced. Frequently retailers will themselves offer repair or replacement. But, if you are a consumer (not making the purchase in the course of a business) you have the statutory right to seek a repair or replacement as an alternative to seeking damages.
Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?
No. You bought the goods from the trader, not the manufacturer, and the trader is liable for any breaches of contract (unless he was acting as the manufacturer's agent).
Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?
No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one. However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement, credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient.
Q8. Can I claim a refund on sale items?
It depends on why you want to return them. The Sale of Goods Act still applies, but you are not entitled to a refund if you were told of the faults before purchase, or if the fault should have been obvious to you. Also, you are not entitled to a refund if you simply change your mind about liking the goods.
Q9. Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?
It depends on why you want to return the goods.
• If you have changed your mind, then the shop doesn't have to do anything.
• But if the goods are faulty, incorrectly described or not fit for purpose, then you are entitled to your money back (provided you act quickly), and you certainly don't have to take a credit note
• If you do accept a credit note in these circumstances, watch out, as there may be restrictions on their use.
• If the shop displays a sign stating they only give credit notes instead of refunds, they might be breaking the law and you could report them to Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06. Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact Consumer Line on 0845 600 6262.
Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?
The Small Claims Court procedure provides the means to bring a claim, for up to £5000 (in England and Wales), at modest cost and without the need for a solicitor. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise on how to make a claim.
Q11. The retailer has said that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?
Yes, and vice versa if you request a replacement and this is "disproportionately costly". However, remember any remedy has to be carried out "without significant inconvenience" and within a "reasonable time" for the consumer. Remember that you could also seek damages instead.
Q12. Neither repair nor replacement of the goods are possible. What can I do?
You may either pursue the old route of damages or a partial or full refund. Probably either would give you exactly the same amount of money. You would seek a full refund in scenarios such as those where you had enjoyed absolutely no benefit from the goods. If you had benefited from them then you would seek a partial refund as a fair remedy. This is exactly the reasoning that would be employed if you sought damages.
Q13. What does the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?
It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.
In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.
This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.
Q14. Where can I get further advice?
Contact Consumer Direct at: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk (Tel: 08454 04 05 06). Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact Consumer Line on 0845 600 6262.
Les
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24/9/2013 at 1:55pm
Location: Llangennech Nr Llanelli S Wales.
Outfit: VW Touareg & Swift Charisma 635
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And I repeat. The OP no longer has the goods THAT WERE SOLD TO THEM BY GLOSSOP.
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24/9/2013 at 2:59pm
Location: Worcestershire
Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by scarletsfan on 24/9/2013
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 24/9/2013
Quote: Originally posted by scarletsfan on 24/9/2013
I think the problem you now have is that the awning you currently have was not supplied to you by Glossop.
The original contract was with Glossop and is still in place for 6 whole years.
The contract may be in place, but the awning they bought from Glossop is not.
Say you bought a TV from Currys which you thought was faulty and you got replacement direct from Toshiba. If the replacement you got directly from Toshiba was also faulty would you expect Currys to replace it?
Yes as it was with Currys that the original contract occurred as you never paid any money to the manufacturer so no contract! If you are still unsure ask your local CAB or TS.
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24/9/2013 at 4:28pm
Location: Lincs
Outfit: Coachman Wanderer 19
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Been having a think about this, it's my belief that the contract with Glossop would still be in place.
It may not be the same awning, but it was Glossops attempt to remedy the fault by involving (what is technically) a third party, the 'manufacturer'.
No contract exists between Mandylou9 and the manufacturer for the second awning, it was basically supplied free gratis, therefore no 'consideration' was effected, so no contract, and ultimately, under the philosophy of 'strict liability' she has no course of action to take against the manufacturer for that second fault.
Her contract and action still lies against Glossops, for their failure to remedy the fault in the first awning.
I would suggest considering a claim through the small claims court against Glossops. A letter informing them of your intention to make a claim against them may have some effect on its own.
You would have to send one anyway if you intended going down this route, from memory it is required that you give 14 days notice before action, but may be a day or two out on this one , (blame senior person memory problems)!!
Please feel free to correct me if I'm guilty of muddled thinking, or not making sense.
Post last edited on 24/09/2013 17:06:11
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24/9/2013 at 5:14pm
Location: Cornwall
Outfit: Pilote Explorateur
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Greetings again,
Mandy could also take action against the credit card Co. she used to buy the awning
(Assuming of course that Mandy used a credit card AND the Awning cost more than £100)
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How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!
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30/9/2013 at 3:18pm
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Welcome AJinEB,
I note that this is your first posting, I hope that you find this discussion group helpful as there is a wealth of information and good advice on here.
Can you expand on your posting as to why you do not advise Steward Mouland as a good dealer as I have va very good friend in the south of England, who is in the process of buying a second van from there.
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Sammy A
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