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Subject Topic: Overturned caravans
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26/7/2009 at 3:56pm
 Location: Cornwall
 Outfit: Autotrail Scout
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Last year, the lorry ruts in lane one of some stretches of the M5 were exceptionally bad. Now I run with a noseweight of approx 85 kg (max 100 kg and my towbar is rated for 135 kg), all the heavy stuff except the spare wheel and gas bottles in the 'van is on the floor over the axle, MTPLM of the 'van is about 72% of the car kerbweight and I normally have almost 100 kg reserve payload. I'm also running with recommended tyre pressures on both the car and 'van, checked before commencing each journey. The outfit is usually a stable tow at French Autoroute speeds.

With that lot, you'd think that I'd be fine to tow at a steady 60 mph. Yet last year on a couple of stretches of the M5 those ruts had me fighting to stay in lane one and twice I had to reduce speed to about 45 mph to regain control. I've had both my car and caravan checked, with no faults found that could lead to instability. So I can only conclude that the road itself was the problem and hence wonder if some or all of those overturns were due to the state of the road. After all, my truck is well in excess of what's needed to tow my little Bailey so I suspect that those ruts could really spoil the day for someone with an 85% or higher match.

Geoff


26/7/2009 at 4:46pm
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit:  Autotrail Comanche
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Just come back from a weekend away ,comming back up the M5 cruse control set at 60mph,we were passed by several caravans weaving in and out ,not being towed by young foollish drivers but by so called people of a certain age who should now better!!!!

Also by motorhomes with cars in tow traveling at 70mph plus i thought that the 60 mph towing rule applied to all types of vechicles but i must be wrong.......

 



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26/7/2009 at 5:58pm
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Could someone please enlighten me on the mirrors issue.

I tow a Compass Corona 505 with a Grand cherokee and use the standard adjustable mirrors as supplied on the vehicle with no extra " Towing mirrors".

I feel that I can see sufficiently with these mirrors, am I missing something.

Previously I had a Lunar Delta and Shogun and felt that I had sufficient rearward vision again with the standrd mirrors.

This is a genuine question and not a request for digs.



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Albino, Can"t say fairer than that !


26/7/2009 at 6:10pm
 Location: Surrey
 Outfit: Geist AK495 & VDub Twig
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I was under the impression that if your caravan was wider than your car then you had to use mirrors?
Perhaps that is incorrect?

So for example a transit van towing one of the slimmest vans on the market, or a big 4 x 4 towing an Eriba Puck would be OK but for most of us - it's mirrors to be legal??

I use Milenco Grand Aeros and find them ab fab!


26/7/2009 at 6:32pm
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I had better take a look at the legal issues as from a practical point of view i can see all that I need to.

Many thanks for the reply.



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Albino, Can"t say fairer than that !


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26/7/2009 at 6:45pm
 Location: Cornwall
 Outfit: Autotrail Scout
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For cars first used before Jan 26 2010 and after some date in the late seventies, a door mirror is required on the offside of the vehicle. An internal rear-view mirror is also required unless it would not give an adequate view to the rear, in which case a door mirror is also required on the nearside of the vehicle. External mirrors must give a view down the side the vehicle (when straight if a combination) and out to 4 metres from the side of the vehicle at a distance of 20 metres from the rear of the vehicle.

Thus, pragmatically, if the trailer extends further than the centre of the towcar's door mirrors you will need at least a towing mirror on the offside to comply with the regs. Also, if you don't have an adequate rearward view over or through the trailer, you'll need a towing mirror on the nearside also. That said, towing mirrors tend to be sold in pairs and I can't think of a situation where you wouldn't benefit from a nearside mirror where an offside mirror is required by law.

If you're interested, the latest legislation is contained in a 2005 amendment to the Construction and Use regulations (link is to a PDF). The subject was also covered extensively in April last year in this thread after Milenco published some erroneous claims that theirs were the only legal mirrors available. The Caravan Club published Milenco's FUD, I suspect without bothering to check that Milenco's information was correct, and had to publish what was essentially a retraction in the following issue of their magazine.

HTH,

Geoff


26/7/2009 at 6:49pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit: None Entered
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I believe the legal issue is that you should be able to see at least 25 meters behind your van on both sides.  One mirror is not enough.Obviously if you have a caravan that is slimmer than your car then you can do this without them. The vast majority of caravans are larger so requiring mirrors.

I am sure I have read this somewhere and I always use mine ans I can't see what is overtaking until they are nearly past me without them.

 

Thanks Geoff you beat me to it by 4 minutes!!!!!!!



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John



26/7/2009 at 6:54pm
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Thanks for the info.

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Albino, Can"t say fairer than that !


26/7/2009 at 7:08pm
 Location: Aberdeenshire invernowhere
 Outfit: lunar lexon ew ford kuga 2.0ltr awd
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last year i pulled in to nairn c&cc club site and the unit that came in after me was followed buy the police and you need two mirrors if the trailer is wider than the towing vehicle and hears the good bit as of last year you now get 3 penalty pionts for no mirrorsthe traffic cop explained it to us

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laugh and the world laughs with you fart and you stand alone


26/7/2009 at 7:25pm
 Location: N Yorkshire
 Outfit: Xc60 D5 Abbey Vogue
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i thought i could see all i needed to see through my Pajero door  mirrors...

until i put the grand aeros on that is.you can see far more with them than a standard mirror.why chance a fine or causing an accident for the sake of a few quid ???



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26/7/2009 at 9:28pm
 Location: West Cumbria
 Outfit: Ace Aristocrat caravan & Campervan
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We went to Somerset for a week with friends, they came back 2 days earlier than us and were staying over at Blackpool for a few days, it took them 7 hours to do what should have been arond 4 at the most up the M5 and M6 loads of accidents!!

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Jan:Braids Gretna, Feb Stanwix Park Silloth & Braids Gretna,


26/7/2009 at 9:32pm
 Location: Bath
 Outfit: Bailey Palermo & Kampa Brean
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i assumed you had to have extra mirrors.

i drive a jeep grand cherry and the van aint much wider, but whilst i could manage without the extra mirrors it isnt safe as i cant see behind the van. In fact i moved the mirros out another half an inch last week and gained so much from this it made it much better to see what was behind.

i just dont get the numpties that seem to have these super mega amaxing brakes that can stop in less than 6 feet....where do we get them............
why do people drive closer behind a caravan than they do another car?


26/7/2009 at 9:35pm
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit:  Mitsubishi ASX4
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Quote: Originally posted by scar on 26/7/2009

I had better take a look at the legal issues as from a practical point of view i can see all that I need to.

Many thanks for the reply.


If you do not use extended mirrors how can you know? You can never see enough behind. My car is only a couple of inches narrower than the caravan, but towing mirrors make such a difference, especially on straight motorways where you can then see vehicles coming up behind.

 



27/7/2009 at 9:19am
 Location: Leicester
 Outfit: Abbey stafford 95
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i think the use of the mirrors is to give you a good clear veiw of traffic behind making lane change safe and easy,Meaning the use of extended mirrors a must if you carnt see both sides i followed a van only yesterday that clearly couldnt see a thing,

his safe way to change lane was to indicate and wait until flashed,shame it wasnt blue flashing lights that was clearing his lane change.

any motorway can be dangerous as hgv rutts do start to make caravan snake, theres nothing you can do about it other than be carfull,slow down and hold tight,

stick to a speed that your comfy and safe with and always be ready to deal with an emergancy.How quick can you slam the brakes on (saftly) while traveling downhill with a strong side wind at 80 mph with only 1 tyre?

it happends so be prepaird



27/7/2009 at 9:26am
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Surely the time to find out whether you need mirrors is before you take to the road for the first time not because you've read an article on the net?

In recent weeks we have seen all manner of outfits, big and small, without mirrors, and there is no way any of them could comply with the legislation but they were quite happily thundering along the M5.

Ali



27/7/2009 at 10:13am
 Location: plymouth Devon
 Outfit: ACE SUPREME TWINSTAR 2008
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i quite agree with PAJOHOLIC the m5 lorry ruts do not help, and the m5 is quite a windy corridor around bristol down to taunton.  we have a twin axle and loaded etc correct and we struggle we come on the motorway at burnham on sea and can do no more than 45 miles per hour, and it takes quite a while from there for the caravan to settle, and we are back up to 55mph the further down the motorway and nearer exeter it does get easier,, why cant they repair that part of the motorway or find a road covering that will not make these ruts  dangerours they have enough of our money in road tax and fuel charges!!

And these idiots that sail past us no mirrors and swaying  oblivious to it all,  we stuck at 45mph, can't repeat on here what my OH calls them, and OH is a lorry driver!!!

 

 

 




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