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We've had to 'experiment' with noseweight to get it right.  Our heaviest items that we can move around are the cadac, the awning, tinned stuff, table & chairs & the electric cool box (full).  We kept moving things backwards & forwards, checking the noseweight each time until we had it right. 

Now we know where everything should travel we only have to check the noseweight if we put different things in or take the usual ones out.

If you can find some level ground to do this on & make a note of where everything was when you got the noseweight right you shouldn't have to do it every time (unless you take different 'stuff' with you every time).

Similarly the dealer fitted a M/M to the front of the axle ignoring N/W increase on a van which already exceeded its limit.

Its often the case on these kinds of posts, that, as the story unfolds, new facts (or clarifications) emerge and the picture can start to appear somewhat different. 

Because the motor mover is only just in front of the axle it does not increase the nose weight by anything like the actual weight of the mover. The battery is towards the rear so there is some balance provided there anyway. Now, can the mover be fitted to the rear of the axel? Would the spare wheel be in the way? If it could be behind the wheel then that, plus the weight of the battery, may assist the balance required by the "seasaw" as adsheadv describes loading.

Maybe the dealer put the mover in the wrong place bearing in mind the exworks noseweight of the van, and that has caused an imbalance which cannot be addressed simply by loading everything to the back? Do that and there is a risk of tail wagging dog anyway. If this is the cause of the problem, then its not the van you need to complain about (initially), but the fixing of the motor mover. 

I have heard tales of exworks noseweight of Valencias being up to (allegedly)125Kg despite the handbook spec indicating 85kg. The Alko hitch can only take 100Kg so, in such a scenario, the vans use could, potentially, breach the Motor Vehicles (Construction and Design) Regs. Selling a caravan that is unroadworthy (hitch weight too much - potential accident) is a criminal offence under s 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Trading Standards enforce this Act. In the case of a business sale, where the facts of a case would support a charge under s 75 of the 1988 Act there is also a potential charge under s 1(1) of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (false trade description). Fine of up to £2000 and/or imprisonment for up to 2 years. 

There is no point in arguing with a Dealer that the exworks noseweight was "probably" not 85Kg. If you are trying to run a legal argument then you have to have your facts right. The better approach (if the problem is with the mover) is to ask the dealer if they weighed the van in its exworks condition and checked its noseweight before fixing the mover. Bet the answer will be "no". Now, having hooked the fish, you can start to develop your argument based on what the dealer tells you.

If the answer is "no" the next question is "In view of the fact that there is anecdotal evidence that Valencias have been manufactured with noseweights in excess of 100Kg surely it would have been prudent to first ascertain whether this van could properly have a mover attached to it? The answer has to be "yes". Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act the dealer has to use reasonable skill and care in providing the service of fitting the mover. If you strip the van down to its exworks state and check the noseweight and that is above 100Kg with mover fitted the dealer than has a problem. Problem with diving in with an allegation, before you have the facts, is that the other side simply goes on to the defensive. Think about your approach to glean as much as you can from the dealer before you jump to a conclusion. So you may not be concerned with SOGA. Allege that the dealer is in breach of that when it may be some other law and the dealer can sensibly deny it and you get no where.

Now, if you do get the van's noseweight checked in its exworks state and that is above 100Kg you are on a SOGA case in that the van is not of satisfactory quality, nor fit for purpose. As a 70 year old I take it that you told the dealer that you needed a van that you could move easily and thus had to have a motor mover. That is a "purpose" that you should have made clear. If you did then you start to develop your SOGA argument. They simply sold you van that you could not use and to which a mover should not have been fitted.

Ok, so if you have a rogue van which has an exworks noseweight at 100 +Kg these are your rights.....

Under the Sale of Goods Act your caravan should be of satisfactory quality, sufficiently durable and free from any defects.  As it is less than six months since you bought the van your remedy is to have a replacement van under s48B of the SOGA ( as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002). That would be a Valencia with the correct exworks noseweight and which can have a mover fitted without exceeding the 100Kg max for the alko hitch. 

You're welcome MrG...all the best

an elegant solution.

Wonderful use of the Queens English JTQU

Phil

If the problem is down to the siting of the motor mover and moving it back will resolve the problem then they should pay. Your argument would be that in fitting it in the first place, incorrectly, they failed to use reasonable skill and care as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act. After all, as Dealers, they hold themselves out as experts in these matters.

Phil

ps If you are taking your van to the Dealers without the battery then cover the battery leads (insulating tape maybe). if they touch whilst you bounce the caravan along the road they will short and blow a fuse, mayby something worse. Best to be avoided.

Phil

Quote: Originally posted by misterg on 15/4/2011

Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 15/4/2011

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Quote: Originally posted by misterg on 15/4/2011

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Update after dealer visit -dealer hitting Bailey's famous brick wall.Will keep pushing.

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Don't fall for that one. If the noseweight is not 85Kg, as advertised, and is above the 100Kg max for the alko hitch, its the Dealers fault under the SOGA. If that is the position then the Dealer is making you break the law by towing the thing.

What happens in these cases, many a time, is that the consumer believes what the seller says and gets strung along. SOGA regulates your contract with the Dealer and NOT with the manufacturer.

If the nosewight is so badly wrong, then just tell the dealer its their fault and that they have to remedy their breach of contract and give you a replacement van.

After they have given you that replacement, then they take issue with Bailey to get their money back. If Bailey will not play ball with them, that is not your problem.

Try sitting in their showroom, whilst they have other purchasers in, (in a loud voice) telling them that they are wrong in law and that they should not be selling vans in such an illegal manner. That they have caused you to commit a criminal offence by towing a van illegally that they have sold (if that is the case). They will not want other potential customers to hear that. Believe me, I have tried that and it works.

If you are in the right, you are right. Why should you lose out whilst they play the "manufacturer" fault,...not mine...game.

Phil

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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 15/4/2011

If the noseweight is not 85Kg, as advertised, and is above the 100Kg max for the alko hitch, its the Dealers fault under the SOGA. If that is the position then the Dealer is making you break the law by towing the thing.

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Hi JTQU,

Think that perhaps the point I was making lacked clarity. We don't know what the actual problem is here, just that the OP cannot get the noseweight to less than 100Kg. My advice has been that IF, (big "if") the van has been so constructed that the noseweight can never be 100kg or below (no matter how you load it) then you will always tow above the limit. The dealer sold the van as having a noseweight of 85kg. If it is way over that then the dealer has the blame under SOGA - false description/not fit for purpose etc.

Dealers cannot sell caravans that are unroadworthy. That is a criminal offence. See one of my earlier posts. If (big "if" again) the van, however you load it, cannot achieve 100Kg or less noseweight, then it is unroadworthy.

Now, when you collect your new van all you tow is the van with, in this case, the mover. Logically the nw should have been less than 100Kg. Is it unreasonable for the OP to rely on the dealers representation as to nw? Dealer has a duty to ensure that the van is roadworthy when selling.

I appreciate that the Driver has a duty as well and should have checked noseweight before leaving the showroom. Had the OP done so, then, from what he has explained he would not have left the dealership. The drivers liability and that of the dealer have to be distinguished, and in the OPs case that of the dealer aligned to its breach of the SOGA and other legislation.

The Dealer, holds himslef out to be an expert in caravanning matters and made a clear representation, and assurance to the OP that the van was less than 100Kg. The dealer cannot then avoid its responsibility by hiding behind the drivers failure to check the noseweight.

I had a similar experience yesterday. I collected my van from the dealers after a little job. I know that the noseweight is 70Kg. As nothing had been added or moved inside the van it was still 70Kg so I was safe to drive away. The job involved the kitchen tap and I asked if they had filled the tank to test the tap...yes they had. I then asked if they had drained the tank....yes they had. Tank at front of van full of water would have increased the nw. I could have relied on their representation, after all the law imposes on the dealer an obligation to use reasonable skill and care. A clear unequivocal assurance that the tank was empty. I lifted the yellow tap anyway, and Lo the tank emptied!!! Dealer still had an obligation and was clearly at fault.

Phil