Message Forums

Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 09/7/2011

---

David (DSB post above.) is spot on

Just a few matters to raise in addition to Davids excellent description of the process.

1. Check just what your insurance policy says about the sums they pay for a write off.

2. Quoting prices on forecourts is one thing...what they actually sell for can be different. Might be better to use prices of actual sales.

3. Forecourt prices will include the dealers mark up and in undertaking a valuation of your van the loss adjuster may not include for that in its market price. 

4. Is the assessor a caravan "expert"? Some insurers pass the work to loss adjusters who normally deal with the motor trade.

5. Don't get hung up on the valuation you submitted to your insurers and for which you have paid a premium for that level of cover. The insurers give no warranty that your figure is correct. It is your figure, not theirs. Its your choice to pay a premium for £9000 of cover. Focus on this aspect too much and you just end up missing the real point of your argument.

6. You insurance policy should include the complaints procedure

7 Arguing that they are trying to save money is the equivalent of saying that they are acting in bad faith and that impugns their reputation. Best not to insult them

8. Insurance Companies have to abide by the “Treating Customers Fairly Rule” which is enforced by the Financial Services Authority. You may wish to argue that, in your view a settlement along the lines you have suggested (supported by evidence) would meet that standard. It can be useful to quote this Rule.

Phil

---

Summing it all up, my posts were generally aimed at how unfair insurance can be and how to valuate your caravan but to take this to the next level, David and Phil have the right idea of approaching the legal aspect of it all and obviously this is the way forward now. Good advice Dave & Phil.

Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 09/7/2011

---

David (DSB post above.) is spot on

 

2. Quoting prices on forecourts is one thing...what they actually sell for can be different. Might be better to use prices of actual sales.

3. Forecourt prices will include the dealers mark up and in undertaking a valuation of your van the loss adjuster may not include for that in its market price. 

 

---

Quoting forecourt figures is all that you can do, unless you have negotiated a buying price for a particular caravan then you wil be unable to find out what the selling price would be.

The forecourt prices include the dealers mark up and the payment that you receive should also include this. The insurers are duty bound to pay you a sum which would allow you to go out and buy a the same model of caravan of the same age and in the same condition, to do this you have to go to a dealer and find that same caravan.  Your insurance is not there to pay out the sum of money that you as a private individual could sell your van for, it should provide the sum of money to allow you to replace it. These are two different things.

it should provide the sum of money to allow you to replace it.

To an extent, Bill, but it very much depends on what your policy says. Its not about giving you enough to replace the caravan its about giving you its value. That may or may not enable you to replace. Just a subtle nuance. Or is it an annoying nuance?

Phil

Hi Janx.  It depends.  I notice you have a Pageant Burgundy.  Without looking back at previous posts, I don't know how old your van is.  If it is 10 years old or less you can be covered new for old with the Caravan Club - personally this isthe was I would go.

This is the process I go through every year - in fact I did mine yesterday for the next year.  The insurance company will just carry forward the amount insured from last year unless you contact them.  IMHO one should never just accept the carry forward figure.  If you can get insured New for Old, then I think this is the safest bet.

I have a Pageant Sancerre 2009, but Bailey no longer make the van.  I point this out to them on the phone and ask them what Bailey suggest as the equivalent van for replacement.  The CC have a list.  Bailey are now suggesting that my replacement is a Pegasus Verona.  They told me the list price (I think ot was £16,333, from memory).  On to this you add the associated equipment: that is basicaly the cost of stuff that is essential to the van (includes awning, groundsheet, pegs, aquaroll, wastemaster, security devices, motor mover, gas bottles and things connected with this).  That gives you the insured amount for Caravan and Associated Equipment.  You then work out the cost of the contents of the van.  This basically includes things you could normally use in the home too e.g. cutlery, crockery, glasses, kitchen equipment, BBQ, chairs, tables, bedding, towels, personal items, clothes etc.  I think ours came to something like £19,000 for van & associated equipment and £2000 for contents.  I actually have a spreadsheet with everything on + prices.  You are welcome to have a copy if you email me.  This forms the basis of my insurance for next year.

I now know, I am covered for everything, and if the van is stolen or is written off (total loss), I will be getting a brand new Pegasus Verona.  I am generous with my spending on insurance.  As you may know, my last van as stolen, but the CC were excellent and I had no problem in getting the van I wanted as a replacement.  I sent them a copy of my spreadsheet costs etc and it was all sorted.  Now the CC insurance is not the cheapest on the block, but because of my experience, to be honest, I think you get what you pay for.

If you are insured for market value then it is much more difficult and less clear cut - this is just one reason I do what I do.  I can't really give advice for insurance for market value, as I've never had a van older than ten years old - although I suspect this one might run close (unless I get another new one through insurance!!).

Don't really know whether this is very helpful?? 

Yes Janx, Option 1 -Only ever have a van less than five years old!!!!

If the van is less than five years old you can get new for old insurance. CC do it in stages (older it is the more it costs) and they are not as good as my insurers in this respect. They simply charge a whole lot more to get what I have now. 

Even new for old has its twists. If the van can be economically rebuilt i.e its cheaper to rebuild than replace then they pay to have it rebuilt. That is what the CC policy says. Even if it is destroyed they can pay the rebuild costs even if it is not possible to rebuild. Check your policies

In the case of the OP the van is 2003 so you will not get new for old. You will get its value if it is a write off or stolen. Actually, its often better to have it stolen than smashed up in an accident. Option 2 - have it stolen.

I am not suggesting that if it is smashed up you report it stolen you understand....Check David's post. His caravan was stolen and he was very happy with the insurance settlement. Have your caravan stolen...be happy!!!! Sounds daft I know but in this post I am just talking compensation and not the aggravation you get from having the van stolen.

Insurance policies pay you for what you have lost and with depreciation that is often lower than you think.  

It is often the case that complaints about insurance arise because folk simply do not know how it works. We think it works as we would like it to, but it doesn't. Just get your mind around that concept.

We insure to be reimbursed the value of the van or car. Its value is a point of view. We have our view of its value and the insurers have theirs. You get into negotiation. That is how it works. Don't fight it because it doesn't work how you want it to, work within the system.

Constantly check prices. Constantly keep a check on resale values. Keep records of sale prices on Ebay or elsewhere...well the prices that are well above what you want. Now, does anyone keep records like that? No you don't....but the insurers do. So why not play them at their own game. That is where we go wrong.

Phil

Just seen Davids' Post and he says that the CC do new for old up to 10 years. They never told me that the cheeky beggers. Is that right David?

Phil

Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 09/7/2011

---

Just seen Davids' Post and he says that the CC do new for old up to 10 years. They never told me that the cheeky beggers. Is that right David?

Phil

---

We obviously crossed posts, Phil.  Yes, it's 10 years for CC (I will double check tomorrow and post again if I'm wrong - but I'm 99.99% certain), so the 2003 van would be good for a couple of years.  The other thing with the CC is that you get New for Old (for the van only) until the van is three years old, even with their standard policy.  You have to upgrade in year 4. 

Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 09/7/2011

---

it should provide the sum of money to allow you to replace it.

To an extent, Bill, but it very much depends on what your policy says. Its not about giving you enough to replace the caravan its about giving you its value. That may or may not enable you to replace. Just a subtle nuance. Or is it an annoying nuance?

Phil

---

The insurance is intended to replace your caravan not to improve it but to put you back in the position that you were before whatever event happened. This means that you must be able to source an identical item at the price that they give you, this is the value of the goods. The value is most certainly not the sum of money that you could get for the caravan from a dealer in part exchange, it may however be the price that you would have to pay in a private sale. So the assessors job is to seek out places where a similar item can be bought and to arrange that the offer matches what he has seen. So when an assessor is coming round the best thing to do is to provide a list of all the caravans that you can find that are the same as the one in question. The sum of money offered should enable you to buy the one of those that most matches what you had.

CC policy on new for old indicates that it is in their discretion to pay out new for old. They will pay new for old if the van is “beyond economical repair” as their policy states. “Beyond economical repair” is not defined in the policy. Generally it will mean that if the van can be repaired at a cost less than the "new" value then they can offer the sum it would cost to repair. That argument is not available to CC Insurers if the van is stolen...hence my comment that it can be better to have it stolen rather than smashed!!

The policy also indicates that if they are paying new for old they will take into account "available discounts" when determining the sum they will pay. Pehaps that may also be the case for the OP, hence the lower figure offered.

To protect yourself, under CC cover (and others) you have to raise the limit of the new for old cover otherwise you only get paid out the maximum of your cover. So when renewing insurance just consider the value that the van is insured for. In these stringent times some folk may just not bother to keep the cost down but you could end up losing out.

The CC policy, strangely, excludes electrical damage. Again, to protect yourself, always check that the site you are on has circuit breakers within their system. They hsould have. The CC specifically advertises in their leaflets that their sites have these. If you use extension cables in your van then use surge proteced ones.

Phil

I wish I had the courage to go without insurance, but I havn't.  Every experience I have had with insurance companys has left me feeling cheated.

We had our van written off in France when a car tried to drive through the side on a motorway.  Driver accepted responsibility so my insurance company would get full retrieval.  Even so they valued my van at way below what it would cost to replace.  I argued and got nowhere.  I even asked them to find me a van of similar type age and equipment level for the price they were offering but they declined.

In my view they are nothing but thieving b*******! Sorry, shouldn't get so worked up! Oh and this was Caravan Club insurance!