Message Forums

Do a search for "the caravan company" ...... simply type that in and hit search and your question will be answered.

Quote: Originally posted by MrRee on 09/6/2012

---

Let's be clear .... these are ALL secondhand vans.

They are priced between £8000 and £13000

They do move vans between their Reading, Wimborne, Liecester and Northampton sites ....... I have no problem with that.

The vans I speak of have been at the same site for at least 4 months - not labelled as 'New Arrival' until this last week!!

The change in price by £100 is also an attempt to deceive .... and this is my point, they are trying to deceive potential buyers by lieing.

It is blatant - and unethical in my opinion.

Yes, a buyer should ignore all signs and buy on condition and pay a fair price ..... but, it would worry me somewhat if the dealer was shown to be capable of deceit.

Maybe I'm old fashioned? But I believe in telling the truth and not misleading people for ones own personal profit ...... where did honesty get lost?

---

Now that is interesting. You did not mention that these were second hand vans, hence my comment "If they are new". On this basis they do have questions to answer.

Phil

Phil ..... I wouldn't worry about NEW Caravan Stock (as in brand new Caravans).

No, these are secondhand vans taken in over 4 months ago ..... and this week being labelled as 'New Arrival' - which is extremely unethical and deceitful. The salesmen know what they are doing, deceiving.

I'm sure a judge would think 4 months, in the summer months, does NOT constitute a new arrival ...... but, it's more than that, isn't it?

It's the willingness of this Company to lie and deceive which is the most worrying - what else are they up to if they can do this?

Or to put into legals Jeep..............you can't mislead in a way that is unfair to consumers.

If you refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading/Trading Standards, under the  Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 it has to consider, not just the notice “new arrivals”, but the surrounding circumstances.  It is also legally obliged to consider whether a misleading notice is unfair, that is, is it likely to cause your average consumer to be misled into taking a different decision about the caravan because of the notice. Whilst this notice concerns second hand caravans the condition of the caravans, and other factors, are important factor in answering that question. As jeep succinctly put it "if it is a heap of jaded overpriced c**p".

Then there are two other issues to consider

1.     Is the notice indicating that these are “new” arrivals rather than  “second hand” arrivals, or

2.     Does the dealer really mean that they are “newly”  or “recently” arrived (as defined by the OED)

Taking issue 1 – The first strand of the legals is that the notice is clearly misleading as they are not new but second hand.  Moving to the second strand, will your average punter be misled?  So, are the caravans clearly second hand?  Many a caravanner comes on here indicating that they have just bought a “new to us” caravan which is immaculate; Just like new in fact. Experienced caravanners can spot a second hand van so, in my opinion would not be misled in which case the notice is not an unfair business practice under the Regulations. However, the novice purchaser could be misled into believing that an immaculate second hand caravan is new. Shopping around for a new van they know the price and come along to your Dealer and see these much lower prices they could be fooled into believing that they are heavily discounted prices for a new van and could so easily be misled and “take a different decision about the caravan because of the notice”, namely to buy it thinking that it is a bargain for a new van. This scenario could very well lead to the OFT or Trading Standards issuing a compliance notice to have the notices removed.

However, if they are clearly second hand, your average consumer would not be misled.  A two year old caravan on a forecourt for four months is still a two year old caravan. Is the date of first registration of the van displayed in the caravan window, for example?  They usually are. Does the Dealer show the CRiS documents to buyers before they get their cheque books out? All of these surrounding circumstances could lead the OFT/Trading Standards to take no action and the signs remain. The buyer does not rely exclusively on the notice to reach a decision about buying

Taking issue 2 –  What are “new arrivals”? A four month old baby is still new. When we buy goods and have them for four months and they break down do we not go back to the seller and complain that something new should not break down?  Does your average caravanner  go for the second hand van that has just arrived at the dealers and ignore those that have been there for four+ months?  We may agree that four months is not newly arrived but, as I say, the enforcing authorities do not stop at “the advert is misleading”. They have to go a stage further, under the Regulations, and ask “Does this practice cause, or is it likely to cause, your average consumer to take a different decision about the caravans?”. Do buyers just come into the dealer only if vans are fresh in? Personally I doubt it. Is there any market research that shows that caravanners go for the new arrivals only? The OP has suggested that a van that arrived in the last two weeks is a new arrival. The Dealer clearly considers that up to four months is still a new arrival. The boundary line between a new and old arrival is somewhere, but where? I am not sure that there is such a hard and fast rule that we can say that four months is old. That level of uncertainty, leads me to be inclined to consider that the practice is misleading but not unfair. The OFT/Trading Standards cannot take action if they conclude that it is not unfair or are doubtful that it is unfair.

So, on  issue 1 it may be wrong depending upon the surrounding circumstances. On issue 2 it is not wrong, in my view.

Phil

I could understand a sign telling anyone viewing an item that hadn't been cleaned since arriving that it was awaiting preparation but I see no point in telling anyone it's a new arrival. If I go looking at vehicles or Caravans & see a dirty one I look for the "awaiting preparation" notice which indicates they've just taken it into stock, otherwise I don't worry how long the dealer's had it in stock.

BB

Most people would guess that a caravan which has been stuck around for 4 months and not sold, either:-

1. Has something wrong with it

2. Is overpriced

3. Both of the above

A 'New Arrival' fools a purchaser into thinking that the van has just arrived and therefore there may not be much room for movement on the price .... indeed, the salesman may say, "No Discount, Just Arrived, expected to sell quickly" .... now, that's unethical and misleading.

Indeed, one of the vans concerned even had a sign saying "Awaiting Preparation" which is laughable as it was valeted before sale 4 months ago!!

Unethical - regardless of what the legals say .... but I note the legals above, thanks.

Quote: Originally posted by MrRee on 10/6/2012

---

A 'New Arrival' fools a purchaser into thinking that the van has just arrived and therefore there may not be much room for movement on the price .... indeed, the salesman may say, "No Discount, Just Arrived, expected to sell quickly" .... now, that's unethical and misleading.

---

I know about Sales Techniques, about Salesmen, and how to do a deal.

What may have left me behind is this change in ethical behaviour - what's wrong with being honest (yes, yes, I know that Salesmen are by their very nature, dishonest) ..... but, Caravan people are a close knit bunch (whereas everyone needs a car, for example) ... so, a Dealer who lies and cheats is one for whom the market will shrink rather rapidly.

The Caravan Company pay for big adverts, claim to be the biggest dealer in secondhand caravans ...... they should also stand above the rest in moral standards in my humble opinion.

Think I will pop back this weekend and see if they have removed the misleading, deceitful stickers.

I did inform the salesman that I knew what they were doing ...... and that Trading Standards would take a dim view.