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Subject Topic: Best way to get a caravan up a kerb?
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27/2/2013 at 10:27am
 Location: East Lothian
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Tentz is right, simple problem with a simple solution


27/2/2013 at 11:15am
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If you use your caravan abroad you'll also find that ramps will come in handy.  We've stayed at quite a few campsites where the pitches have curbs.

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Il vaut mieux vivre ses reves que rever sa vie


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27/2/2013 at 11:20am
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We all have choices in life. Do the job right or do it wrong. If you wish to do it incorrctly take an informed decision, knowing the consequences.

What happens in real life............for years, here in Brid, folk have been mounting kerbs to park on grass verges causing damage and creating eyesores. Individuals have complained and recently the local Town Council made representations to the District Council to take action. So, last week the local Authority was in our area taking photos of vehicles parked where they had to drive over kerbs.  One offence recorded. They were also parked on grass verges causing quite some damage. Second offence. So, I anticipate that the offenders will have been written to. Interestingly, down our street, all the cars that are regularly parked on the verge have gone into drives.

Action does get taken.

Funny old world, some crimes are seen as crimes and others are not. Those that are not seen as crimes become part of the popular view that you can commit them, no matter what damage is caused to the areas we live in. Then the hoodie commits some vandalism and we tut tut and demand that he be charged. Then when someone pops up and gives advice on the legal position, just to be helpful, and about which many folk have no knowledge, it turns out to be wrong to do so. Funny old world.

Phil

 



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


27/2/2013 at 11:39am
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Do a "top gear" and tie it under a hot air balloon. It seems to be by far the simplest solution to this complex problem.


27/2/2013 at 1:03pm
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 27/2/2013
Then when someone pops up and gives advice on the legal position, just to be helpful, and about which many folk have no knowledge, it turns out to be wrong to do so. Funny old world.

Phil

 




I think everybody is aware they can get a fixed penalty for parking on the pavement & also that should they damage pavement or street furniture they can(if they can be traced)receive a repair bill from the council or relevant utility company.

It is not however 'illegal' to reverse a caravan over the pavement to park it on your property & it is disingenuous to suggest that to anybody who merely asks for advice on how to get a caravan over a kerb.



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27/2/2013 at 2:03pm
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It is actually illegal to drive over a kerb if you have a look at the highways Act 1980. The Highways Authority can actually serve a notice on the owner of the property to which access is being obtained to provide the dropped kerb. Like I said "drive" over a kerb. The offence occurs when you use a mechanically propelled vehicle e,g towing your caravan over the kerb.

If you are pushing or "leading" the caravan, rather than driving it, there is always the Highways Act 1835 offence and for which the fine may not exceed £500. All of this Act has been repealed except for s72 which sets out the offence. This upholds the principle that a footpath is there to be used on foot only. Thus, the legal position is that if you can alter the footpath into something else, e,g driveway or vehicle crossing, then the passing over the footpath offence cannot be committed.

There are many myths in English law created because folk regularly break the law and no one takes action so people think that what they are doing is lawful. Saw a chap the other day parking on double yellow lines and I just mentioned that a Traffic Enforcement officer was in the other street so he better be quick and he came back with "It's OK if your warning lights are flashing". Silly s**

Phil

 

 



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


27/2/2013 at 3:34pm
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 27/2/2013

It is actually illegal to drive over a kerb if you have a look at the highways Act 1980. The Highways Authority can actually serve a notice on the owner of the property to which access is being obtained to provide the dropped kerb. Like I said "drive" over a kerb. The offence occurs when you use a mechanically propelled vehicle e,g towing your caravan over the kerb.

If you are pushing or "leading" the caravan, rather than driving it, there is always the Highways Act 1835 offence and for which the fine may not exceed £500. All of this Act has been repealed except for s72 which sets out the offence. This upholds the principle that a footpath is there to be used on foot only. Thus, the legal position is that if you can alter the footpath into something else, e,g driveway or vehicle crossing, then the passing over the footpath offence cannot be committed.

There are many myths in English law created because folk regularly break the law and no one takes action so people think that what they are doing is lawful. Saw a chap the other day parking on double yellow lines and I just mentioned that a Traffic Enforcement officer was in the other street so he better be quick and he came back with "It's OK if your warning lights are flashing". Silly s**

Phil

 

 



Phil, what would be the situation if someone was parked in the road in front of the van when the OP wanted to get it out?  Am I right in thinking that it is quite legal to park there if the kerb is not dropped?   

Personally, I have always found your post helpful and informative so thank you for that.



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Ronni


27/2/2013 at 3:38pm
 Location: West Wales
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My interest is aroused by the fact that a property owner has undergone the process and expense involved in constructing a vehicular access which is illegal to use.

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If if it aren't totally broken its probably best left alone.


27/2/2013 at 5:04pm
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When it comes to knowing the law I would tend to take a lot more notice of Phil than Tentz. Whether people want to take that advice is up to them, but they should have all the facts at their disposal. Thank you Phil for all the hard work you put in on this site advising people about all sorts of things.


27/2/2013 at 5:26pm
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 27/2/2013
Saw a chap the other day parking on double yellow lines and I just mentioned that a Traffic Enforcement officer was in the other street so he better be quick and he came back with "It's OK if your warning lights are flashing". Silly s**

Phil

 

 




Its actually ok if you can get away with it & this is always the 'real world' judgement call for situations similar to & as described in this thread. You have earned your money from the law. I, as a lorry driver have spent plenty of time circumventing laws in the course of my work. So I know a fair bit about what you can & can't get away with & how to get away with it(ah! hang on, so do lawyers )which is the advice that some people want....

& fact is most people can back their caravan over the pavement & onto their property without causing problems for themselves or anybody else, whether it is 'illegal' or not.


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27/2/2013 at 6:12pm
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We are in the crazy situation that the Deeds for our ex-Council bungalow specifically states that we are allowed to place a (single) caravan in the frontage of our property, but then they refuse to allow us to have a dropped kerb to get it there!
All I got was "Well push it up the kerb"


27/2/2013 at 6:22pm
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Its a difference in the training for the profession I suppose, Tentz. In my world when a client asks a question you tell them what the law actually says you can do. You advise of the potential consequences for a breach of the law, give them all of the information they need so that they can make an informed decision on which course of action they wish to take.

I wouldn't go down the "it's actually OK to commit a crime if you can get away with it" approach to the giving of advice. At the end of the day it's up to the person posing the question as to what he wants to do, but let's provide them with the right facts.

I've said it before but the client who wouldn't take the advice tended to be the most profitable as it costs more to dig folk out of a hole than it does to keep them from falling into it in the first place. In that way, it's the foolhardy client who makes us the money and not the lawyer!!! Ten minute chat in the office doesn't cost that much but preparation for a court hearing, all that time hanging around the court for the case to come up (which is chargeable), the hearing, advising the client afterwards etc etc, and the bill soon mounts up. Happy days.

Phil 



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


27/2/2013 at 6:40pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 27/2/2013
We are in the crazy situation that the Deeds for our ex-Council bungalow specifically states that we are allowed to place a (single) caravan in the frontage of our property, but then they refuse to allow us to have a dropped kerb to get it there!
All I got was "Well push it up the kerb"


This is interesting. The Housing Authority sold the house and placed the "user" clauses into the Deed. The Highway Authority deals with approvals for the vehicular crossing. The two are different and operate under different legal protocols. However, if you bought your house from a Unitary Authority then the Highway Authority and the Housing Authority are both the same legal body.

The Housing folk should have checked with their Highways Department before they granted you that right. You may wish to argue that the principle of equitable estoppel by representation applies and that they have to provide you with the approvals so that you can provide the vehicular crossing.

This is how this legal principle works. Having held a promise to you that you can park your van in your drive, it is then inequitable (unreasonable) for the Council to deny you the ability to benefit from that promise. The clause in your deeds is the "representation". To run this argument you have to show that you relied on that "representation" or "promise" and went ahead to buy. If you couldn't park your van in the gounds of the house it wasn't worth buying kind of argument. It was that important.

In the alternative - the Highways people may have excellent highway safety reasons for not permitting you to have dropped kerbs. Housing should have checked that out and if they didn't then that may amount to maladministration. So, a potential claim to the Ombudsman under which you seek compensation.

When your house was valued (by the District Valuer or whoever) the Housing people must have advised the valuer of the rights etc that were to be granted with your house and he took those into account. Perhaps an over valuation then and for which perhaps compensation may be appropriate. Compensation doesn't get you a vehicular crossing, and the effect on the valuation may not be much, but, if you can't get approval for a crossing then that may be something.

Ask them why they will not approve a vehicular crossing to your drive, let us know and I may be able to suggest a way forward.

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


27/2/2013 at 7:39pm
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The trouble is when someone has gone over the kerb there is never a police officer to report it to.







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Ollie

2016
Monplaisir - Provence
Camping Les Gorges du Loup


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You did not actually believe the police of today know the laws or if they did actually obeyed them did you


28/2/2013 at 12:03am
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 26/2/2013

Best way to get a caravan over a kerb....................apply to the Local Authority for a dropped kerb to be constructed and then get a contractor, approved of b ythe Local Authority, to do the work for you. It's illegal to driver over a kerb unless you put dropped kerbs in.

I know, I know, not the kind of information anyone wants to hear......but it only takes one complaint from someone who doesn't like a caravan in someone's garden.............it happens..........and I assume you want a legal way to do it

Phil







But if you push or use a motor mover to get the caravan over the kerb then technically your not driving over the kerb........



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