Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 30/8/2013
They are not being ripped off if the buyer asked for it.
They may not have the funds to clear the old balance but need to change the van and willing to pay a higher figure.
Its not a good way of doing things. Possibly paying a lot more interest.
It happens with car finance all the time. Dealers will pay off your old finance by adding the figures to the new deal.
The finance company may not be happy about it, Giving £5000 worth of finance on a £4000 van.
But its the OP's parents that will be in the sticky stuff if the finance ask for the £1000 right away.
Its only a sharp practice if the buyers knew nothing about it. But they may have asked or it?
In this case they got £500 for their caravan and paid another £50 deposit. Why is there a £500 surplus from their caravan if the the outstanding finance was carried over which is not generally allowed as in addition to interest you also have the fees for setting up the original agreement included plus any PPI?
It is highly unlikely that any reputable finance company would allow a debt to be carried across as from day 1 the caravan would be in negative equity.
Something is not right and I stand by by statement at the moment. Perhaps Phil can comment if he is still around.
"It is highly unlikely that any reputable finance company would allow a debt to be carried across"
As Grampian says, car dealers do it all the time, with reputable finance companies.
------------- XVI yes?
As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.
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But the dealer is not likely to tell the finance company yeah the vans worth a lot less than the figures i gave you because they owe money on the old van.
He will lose a sale and just goto a dealer who doesnt tell the finance company.
Who knows the dealer may have listed the caravan for sale at £5000 and they haggled him down?
Buyers choice.
How do you get a new car when you still have finance outstanding on the old one?
It happens daily. In an ideal world your car will be worth more than you owe, But that doesnt happen in a lot of cases.
So they say the car they are buying is worth more.
The finance company know it happens but at the end of the day they need people to take the loans to make money.
They dont want to say its acceptable otherwise everyone will be buying 20 year old bangers for £20,000 and doing a runner with the money. Then say its OK you can reposess the car.
Quote: Originally posted by blueexpo97 on 30/8/2013
"It is highly unlikely that any reputable finance company would allow a debt to be carried across"
As Grampian says, car dealers do it all the time, with reputable finance companies.
Finance companies do not carry across debts on cars. The original debt is settled and any equity is carried across. No reputable finance company in right mind would carry across negative equity. What if the customer defaults on payments? The vehicle is in negative equity so finance company stand to lose even more.
Also if you have negative equity why would they give you £500 towards a deposit on another caravan? The priority is for the previous debt to be settled.
To be fair I have done this once on a car so I should have thought and asked really.
My parents only traded the van because they had nothing but trouble, water leaks. They got totally ripped off from the start, they paid £2,500 for the van and had it for about a year but had massive issues within that time. They made it out like they was giving 2k back for the van but really they was giving £500.
Quote: Originally posted by trakker1 on 31/8/2013
To be fair I have done this once on a car so I should have thought and asked really.
My parents only traded the van because they had nothing but trouble, water leaks. They got totally ripped off from the start, they paid £2,500 for the van and had it for about a year but had massive issues within that time. They made it out like they was giving 2k back for the van but really they was giving £500.
Although they were ripped off they went back to the same dealer? If the previous caravan was on finance, they would have been paying instalments every month.
Are you saying that for a caravan that cost £2500 earlier in the year, the dealer only gave them £500 for the caravan so that their loss was about £2500 incl instalments? If so they were well and truly ripped off.
Pity this did not come up earlier as they should have been covered under the Sale of Goods Act on the previous caravan and could have insisted on a repair, replacement or refund.
Somehow I doubt if the finance is with Black Horse. Hopefully the newer caravan has been checked by a mobile fitter to make sure that it is damp free. If not get it checked as soon as possible to avoid future problems.
Pity you cannot name the rip off dealer!
Reputable finance companies will only advance a proportion of the Glass's Guide price for either the car or the caravan when HP is taken out. To get greater amounts they may go down the Personal Loan route and the limit applied is down to the underwriters and the credit worthiness of the borrower.
Lumping and bumping does happen in the trade but finance companies are aware !!
As said before, its a shame they didnt tackle the dealer under the sale of goods act for the last van, the finance company would have a
so taken up the cause as they have a vested interest in the van too to make sure it is fit for purpose, which may have concluded in a full refund if the van was no good. People forget I think if theybhave finance you can use the finance company to add weight to get things put right, so long as it wasnt a personal loan but hire purchase or via a credit card.
I think the dealer made out they was giving them 2k back for the faulty van, which they said they didn't need to do anything about with it being out of warranty, so they made out they was getting a great deal. When in fact what they did was charge screen price but knock £2,000 off for the van, which they would have done anyway with them being inflated prices, they then gave split that to make it look good on there records by doing £1,500 off the screen price and £500 part-ex value. The finance was taken with black horse!
I am really sorry that your parents got taken in by this dealer and my heart goes out to them. I hate rip off merchants.
From your posts above a picture is starting to emerge and it seems the deal was misrepresented all the way down the line however you may be able to get the deal invalidated and contract cancelled under the Misrepresentations Act.
The main query is the fact that the dealer only offered £500 for a caravan that was purchased for £2500 earlier in the year. It seems that figures were manipulated to confuse the buyers. I am not sure if the Sale of Goods Act could be used as a lever by a clever solicitor working for you.
It may be worthwhile contacting your local CAB which is free and explaining everything to them. This may save your parents a fortune.
What makes this even more strange is when my parents contacted black horse to find out the settlement figure the lady on the phone said it looks like they have been ripped off, my parents told her the dealer and the name of the salesman and the lady knew of this person and said he works for black horse???
My parents don't know about this thread and they have not said anything about it since but I'm wondering if its worth me ringing black horse with there consent.
Quote: Originally posted by trakker1 on 01/9/2013
What makes this even more strange is when my parents contacted black horse to find out the settlement figure the lady on the phone said it looks like they have been ripped off, my parents told her the dealer and the name of the salesman and the lady knew of this person and said he works for black horse???
My parents don't know about this thread and they have not said anything about it since but I'm wondering if its worth me ringing black horse with there consent.
On behalf of your parents, I think you should pursue every avenue open to you. I really hate rip off merchants as they make my blood boil.
I will try and advise as much as possible and I am hoping Phil will see this thread and also offer advice. Another site to look at is to do a Google search for Consumers Action Group as you will get a lot of good advice and help there.