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Topic: Crappy New Caravans

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sweetrunninggir

25/3/2015 at 9:19am
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I bought a Bailey Pegasus S2 Ancona new in 2011, thinking it would be the same quality as my 10tr old Bailey. What a mistake! It was 90%damp on yr three service and dealer said they are mowed out with new caravans in for damp repairs under warranty. It's a disgrace. Poor build quality, constantly needing repairs, never again Bailey!

Motobiman

25/3/2015 at 9:21am
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Quote: Originally posted by Billy x on 25/3/2015
Consumer law is not a warranty, it is protection for consumers who have bought product from a retailer who has failed to honour a warranty. A warranty allows you to return those goods for repair. If a caravan bought in Belgium requires warranty work then if warranty is only good in Belgium it has to be returned to a dealer there. If dealer fails to carry out work then you have recourse to consumer law, in Belgium. It is EU law but you have to take any action in the country of purchase, in their language.

Understood.

Knaus offer a EU wide warranty and there are 5 authorised dealers in the UK so if you bought in Belgium and had to take it to a dealer for warranty repair and they couldn't do it, surely it would be Knaus's problem?

http://www.knaus.de/en/caravans/information-and-explanations.html

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billy

25/3/2015 at 9:36am
Location: North Essex
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If Knaus wish to offer a warranty that allows work to carried out at their UK dealers even for a caravan supplied abroad they can do that. If there was a dispute about work carried out in UK then your recourse would have to be within the UK, but your dispute would be with the retailer in Belgium. Really you would be relying on the goodwill of Knaus & if you could rely on their goodwill then you would not be in dispute.

Motobiman

25/3/2015 at 9:56am
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The warranty wording on their website is pretty clear but of course one would have to read the small print.

If one, as you say, was in dispute with either Knaus or the EU supplier and you have acted witin the terms of the warranty contract then action could be taken in the UK courts and any judgemenf would be aplicable anywhere in the EU.

That's one of the many advantages of being members of the EU. IMHO

Motobiman

25/3/2015 at 10:02am
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Quote: Originally posted by Billy x on 25/3/2015
It is EU law but you have to take any action in the country of purchase, in their language.

No Sir, EU law is applicable in English courts so you could choose to take action in the UK and any judgement would be apllicable across the EU.

Of course collecting any award would have to within the Belgium legal system but Britain is pretty much alone in that it still has entirely outdated and ineffective application systems for court judgements and award collection,

In most countries now it is contempt of court not to pay an award.....

billy

25/3/2015 at 10:17am
Location: North Essex
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In theory you are right but in practise I am more right inasmuch as EU law in civil disputes involving more than one country are pretty much unenforcable without legal bills on a scale that would render the action pointless.

Go back to my point about most faults on new caravans being quite easiliy diy fixable if they were not warranty claims.

The purpose of buying abroad is to get a good caravan not a faulty one. If you were that unlucky you would be in a worse position than if you had bought a faulty caravan in the UK.

trog100

25/3/2015 at 10:30am
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people that buy new caravans dont expect to have to "do it yourself" fix them..

i dont buy new ones in the first place so the problem dosnt bother me but i can see the problems for people that do..

bad design and bad workmanship all made worse by a repair (back up) system that dosnt work that well..

trog

Motobiman

25/3/2015 at 10:40am
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Oh Billy, Billy. Bit of goal post moving?

Of course no one goes out to buy a faulty caravan but German engineering and quality control is far better than ours today.

In any legal action it is a last resort and depends on who your adversary is.

Your county court action for breach of contract would be at fixed cost and they are pretty minimal.

After the award you apply to the court for a on EEO or EOP and send it to a Belgium bailiff.

He adds his costs to the award and goes after the debtor.

Simples but I concede its long winded and fraught.

Almost impossible in the UK though.

I have several clients who have won in court and not collected a penny, even from fairly big companies.

But the EU has been around for a while now and there is far more harmonisation than most people realise.

Let's just agree that if you can find the quality of product you want to buy in the UK it is probably better to do the deal here than elsewhere in the EU but caveat emptor even with our consumer law.

freeatlast

25/3/2015 at 1:03pm
Location: Teesside
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Well had a further examination of the caravan today and found the whole of the front inside has delaminated from roof to floor. Damp readings are 15% in places, and given the non-wood construction, this should be 0.

Basically it is going to need a new roof and front, and I'm not going to accept that level of repair on a caravan a year old.

freeatlast

25/3/2015 at 1:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by kojack on 25/3/2015
So when you read posts about Forign being better are you listening to this tiny minority

Why on earth do people think everything foreign is of BETTER Quality beats me. if British built is that bad why have we got a booming industry building caravans,
Negative thinking comes to mind

4 caravans. 3 British, one French.

The French caravan sold after 5 years. Dry as a bone. No problems.

All 3 British caravans, major damp problems within the first year.

I've had 12 new cars in my lifetime. 11 have given me no problem at all, one gave major problems and was eventually replaced free of charge after spending an average of a day a week in the garage for the first 6 months. 4 Mazdas, 1 Daihatsu, 2 Hyundai, 1 Vauxhall and 4 Mitsubishi. You guessed the Vauxhall was replaced.

Now please, run that by me again Kojak, from my experience explain why British is best.

The reality is that us British are MUGS. We accept poor quality goods as the norm. Where are the CC and the C&CC is trying to raise standards? No they simply pander to the caravan trade, rather than us mugs who pay our subscriptions. We accept being fobbed off with poor quality.

Baileyjake

25/3/2015 at 1:19pm
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some very true points here about the skills shortage, quality control and build techniques.

i used to work in the galvanizing industry.

one project i managed was to install a new galvanizing bath for Hobby caravans Rendsberg germany.

they gave me a tour of the factory.

caravans and motorhomes were built on a production line basis. there was strict quality control of the type motor manufacturers employ.

Hobby made everything. they loaded sheets of steel in one end and the chassis members were lazer cut and press folded, then galvanized , then bolted together. all in the same factory.

to do this takes serious investment in plant and equipment not to mention investment in the training of their work force.

in contrast, as far as i am aware, uk caravan manufacturing is still a cottage industry making each van one at a time. if the 'It will do attitude' that i experience daily in my industry is the same in the caravan building world i am not surprised if faulty vans slip through the net. i wonder how many of the guys working in the bailey factory are on full time contracts and have a life long ambition to build caravans? how many are temps or dare i say it migrant labor?

looking at my ranger the design is bad anyway. having followed caravans on my motorbike and seen the chassis and body twisting as the van goes over bumps its hardly surprising the seams open up and leaks occur.

Baileyjake

25/3/2015 at 1:26pm
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yes free at last everyone seems to shrug and accept that damp occurring in caravans is normal.

i was livid when my 8 year old caravan got damp. my neighbours with their 2 year old bailey olympus seem to be accepting of it.

......and you have to ask the question why makes like Fendt, Knaus, hobby and LMC are the favorite of the people who live in caravans 365 days/year?

billy

25/3/2015 at 1:59pm
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If you look at youtube vids of Bailey & Swift factory production one can see that the problems are all going to be caused by the people doing the work, not the design. The only thing that stops water getting into caravans it appears is the application of the sealant & that is all done by hand & at speed. Talking to Dutch caravanners though it does seem German built caravans have their share of damp problems as well.

Its fair to say that other countries have better consumer law. Secondhand caravans in foreign dealers are often expensive because they have to come with 1yr guarantee by(local)law.

Who is accepting damp in caravans is 'normal'? where I live I know 3 Swift owners & 2 Bailey, all were bought new 2-6yrs ago & none have been problematic. Just bad luck if you get a bad one & the op appears to have had very bad luck.

Motobiman

25/3/2015 at 2:16pm
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Funny how bad luck always seems to follow British products about though.

Still say it's skills loss at all levels, from the boss down ......

trog100

25/3/2015 at 2:36pm
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its partly because the british buyer demand more "luxury" which means the basic structure is maybe skimped a bit to too much keep the overall weight down and allow room for all the interior "flash"..

so in a way its the buyers own fault.. build a better stronger more durable caravan but with less "luxury" and the average british consumer would not buy it..

take a look at what sells a caravan.. as much luxury (flash) as possible.. as light a weight as possible and a pretend ten year warranty that implies more durability than is really there.. :)

trog

freeatlast

25/3/2015 at 3:02pm
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Further example of poor workmanship/build. On the roof having a closer inspection. Not only is the join between the panels on the top of the roof, but there is a dip so that water pools over the join. There are 4 rooflights, 3 are sealed with non-setting mastic, the 4th is sealed with silicon.

It is simply beyond belief. However strengthens my case should it get nasty.

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