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Subject Topic: Nearly Caused a Accident M56 motorway
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Personiank01
28/9/2018 at 10:33am
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The guideline for nose weight is approximately 7% of the MTPLM however you are limited by the fact that caravan manufactures prefer to fit the lower spec ALKO version that can only take a maximum of 100kg. This may be okay for most caravan but not the bigger caravans. The maximum nose weight on our caravan is 150kg and we have the ALKO hitch.


Persontango55
28/9/2018 at 2:58pm
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Quote: Originally posted by keuken on 28/9/2018
The thread has no purpose if the op does not take part. How much noseweight on your caravan Tony?


I have to agree 'keuken' that this thread does appear to have no purpose because reading the original post by the OP it sounds very much like they were so desperate for constructive advice in relation to their somewhat terrifying experience. As you say, if the OP doesn't take part then it's a waste of time anyone else offerring any further advice really until the OP replies with some comments.



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Personles8366
28/9/2018 at 5:06pm
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Quote: Originally posted by trog100 on 28/9/2018
the Americans say 10% of van weight on the nose.. we say 5%.. okay the Americans have bigger cars and bigger roads but that dosnt alter the laws of physics..

the OP rig was pushing the limits.. the reasons for the potentially lethal snaking are pretty simple.. at least by american standards they are..

trog






The Sorento weighs over 2000kg so can't see the Lunar is anywhere near the limit for the car. I wouldn't have thought it is even at 80% as the Lunar probably is less than 1800kg.


PersonTonyDD
28/9/2018 at 5:55pm
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Hi everyone back home tomorrow (saturday) so we have been reading everyone's comments, noseweights my Sorento hitchweight max 140kg the van Lunar Delta RI 2017
nose weight is approx 125kg (7% of the MTPLM 1720kg). I will be having the wheels balanced next week and having the tyres checked has well even though the van as only done about 250 miles since we bought the van. As anyone heard of the tyre maker Champiro l have'nt and have done some checking on web that these tyres are very cheap to buy,and was wondering if could also contribute to the instability, if so is this a way to keep costs down with caravan manufacturers. Research on wheel balancing does help l had an old Cortina back in the 70's did'nt have wheels balanced steering wheel used to shake at 50mph.
So tomorrow do normal checks wheel torque tyre pressures etc and fiddle about with noseweight will keep everyone posted
Tony

-------------
You'll Never Walk Alone C'mon you Reds


Personkeuken
28/9/2018 at 7:09pm
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Your noseweight should be sufficient & as pointed out do try to place any heavy items over axles & avoid loading rear end. No reason why budget tyres on a caravan should be any worse than premium brand of equivalent load rating but certainly they should be balanced & I am suprised on a new caravan they are not as a matter course. The size is available in premium brands like Goodyear etc but load ratings are mostly the same.

None of this gives you a definitive answer as to the cause though.


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Persontrog100
28/9/2018 at 7:20pm
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at speeds up to 60 mph tyres really dont need balancing.. modern tyres are never that far out anyway they are balanced at the factory during production within reasonable limits..

basically you are clutching at straws looking for reasons why your van snaked.. i doubt you will find any valid ones other than the somewhat vague pushing the limits theory..

trog



Personnavver
28/9/2018 at 7:37pm
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Never having had a twin axle, I can't get fully understand the effect of towball height on noseweight with twins.

As the towball gets lower when the van is hitched up, it must put more weight on the front van wheels decreasing noseweight and vice versa.

If the noseweight is measured at a different height to the loaded car towball height it will be inaccurate.

Do you measure the height of the towball with all luggage in and caravan hitched and then measure noseweight at this height.


Personericmark
29/9/2018 at 11:33am
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We have many times pulled over when it was a little unstable and moved seat cushions around they are reasonably heavy lumps and don't need fastening down, we have found not only front to back but side to side will alter things, nose weight is more down to car springs than caravan and with your car likely you can increase nose weight a lot.

Years ago we fitted extra springs be it blow up balls in coil springs, or extra leaf on leaf springs, or a spring built into the anti-snake device, in general today we do seem to have a lower nose weight to years ago.


Persontango55
29/9/2018 at 2:49pm
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Quote: Originally posted by ericmark on 29/9/2018
We have many times pulled over when it was a little unstable and moved seat cushions around they are reasonably heavy lumps and don't need fastening down, we have found not only front to back but side to side will alter things, nose weight is more down to car springs than caravan and with your car likely you can increase nose weight a lot.

Years ago we fitted extra springs be it blow up balls in coil springs, or extra leaf on leaf springs, or a spring built into the anti-snake device, in general today we do seem to have a lower nose weight to years ago.


You are right in saying that the caravan noseweight is more related to the vehicle's rear springs but the noseweight should be right to each specific vehicle because if you increase the noseweight a lot (as mentioned) then it will make the front end of the vehicle lighter which can affect the steering and also leads to a loss of traction which can be hazardous in rain on wet road surfaces.


PersonTonyDD
29/9/2018 at 3:53pm
 Location: Little Neston Wirral
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Well thanks for all constructive advice we arrived home couple hours ago. Before we started journey home, l checked tyre pressures 49psi wheel torque 95nm, all heavy items ie awning etc, over axles anything else l thought off was put on floor in front of awning. Then l checked noseweight it read 125 kgs, so l removed everything out off the front locker barring 2 gas bottles, noseweight 115 kgs, well within limit for the ball on our Sorento.Going great driving towards M6 Holmes Chapel could not go more than 50mph due to road works on M6 everything stable but traffic speed 45 or below. On the M56 increase speed to 55 mph as cars started to pass in started again dropped speed to below 48mph wasn't to bad increased speed again wagon and van passed luckily dropped speed as they passed l expect the suction from wagon as it passes even around 46 to 50 more than usual the van sways. Even with 40 years as a HGV driver and 30 years caravanning l have never experience this from a new van. Back on the normal A roads max speed 40 mph it was ok. l told my wife, l have decided either site the van or we get rid.
Thanks for your help
Tony

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You'll Never Walk Alone C'mon you Reds


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PersonTonyDD
29/9/2018 at 4:08pm
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I forgot to mention when we emptied the van basically everything out except for 2 gas bottles and what came with the when we bought it. Tested the noseweight again the reading was about 83kg

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Persontrog100
29/9/2018 at 5:47pm
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Quote: Originally posted by TonyDD on 29/9/2018
I forgot to mention when we emptied the van basically everything out except for 2 gas bottles and what came with the when we bought it. Tested the noseweight again the reading was about 83kg


basically the more nose weight (greater percentage of van weight) you have the better.. everything else being up to it of course.. often it isnt..

or the less weight hanging rearwards of the axle the better..

the less tow vehicle length behind the tow vehicle rear axle the better.. its all about leverage..   

trog


PersonTonyDD
29/9/2018 at 7:43pm
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Hi l do understand what you're saying behind the rear axle the was a couple lightweight chairs and some clothes in the wardrobe, my wife had taken few items left overhead lockers so basically over the axles giving it a better low centre of gravity. The measurement from the axle to the tow ball on the Sorento is about 38", like l said our previous vans no problem towing even at 60mph, l just can't figure it out, it was worse coming home than going to the site. The caravan dealers said they would look at the van in November (only time they can fit van in) l know for a fact they won't find any fault with the van. l thought my wife had completely empty the van when l posted the noseweight when empty l have just got another reading and was about 77kgs empty van.

Wife and l have discussed what to do and we both in favour of another van.
Tony


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You'll Never Walk Alone C'mon you Reds


Personmarg6
29/9/2018 at 8:12pm
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have you got a friend with roughly the same weight and size caravan as yours? it may be worth swapping the caravans for a trial run out along the same bit of road, this will help to determine if its the van or the car that has a problem, if your friend finds towing your fine, then its down to either your car (unlikely but not unheard of - and problem should show up towing friends van) or the way your packing this one, either way it will give you more ammunition for the dealer


Personkeuken
30/9/2018 at 7:40am
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Try towing with ATC disconnected if you have not already.


Personiank01
30/9/2018 at 8:56am
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Quote: Originally posted by TonyDD on 29/9/2018
I forgot to mention when we emptied the van basically everything out except for 2 gas bottles and what came with the when we bought it. Tested the noseweight again the reading was about 83kg

Nose weight of 83kg is far toon light for the Lunar. A higher nose weight would be better with very little at the rear of the axles. We had a Lunar TI MTPLM 1800kg and had the nose weight as close as possible to 100kg as that is the maximum for the ALKO hitch. However at 110kg it felt more stable.



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