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 Topic: Am i towing illegally?
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24/1/2009 at 10:40am
Location: Cornwall
Outfit: Autotrail Scout
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Joined: 25/2/2008 Gold Member 
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Quote: Originally posted by Viggo on 20/1/2009
Driving illegally? Who knows. As has been mentioned, there are more things to consider than the Max Tow Limit versus MTPLM. But that's not the point. If you don't know you are legal, you can't expect a conscientious copper to know without spending a long time inspecting paperwork, vehicle plates and whisking the vehicles in question off to a weighbridge. And who wants that hassle? So, while the salesman was over simplifying things, it's far better to be safe than sorry.
The thing is that the salesman is wrong. The only weights that are legally enforceable are:- Maximum axle weights for the car
- Maximum allowable mass of the car
- Maximum train weight for the car
- MTPLM of the trailer
Exceed any of those and you're towing illegally. On another forum, we had a lengthy discussion on this with the ministry being consulted and "forced" to adjudicate. It turns out that the towing limit has no legal status (i.e. break it and you're not guaranteed to be towing unlawfully). However, you will almost certainly invalidate any warranty and a court might consider it evidence of an unsafe vehicle.
That said, those who enforce these laws often don't know the law they're meant to enforce. For example, I once asked several traffic police officers, VOSA, and the DVLA whether I could legally drive under my "grandfather's rights" a combination consisting of a mini-artic tractor of kerbweight about 3 tonnes, MAM just under 5 tonnes, and MTW 8.25 tonnes towing a 5th-wheel caravan with MTPLM of just over 5 tonnes. They all either declined to comment or said that I wasn't licensed for that rig either because it was too heavy or because the MTPLM of the trailer exceeded the kerbweight of the tractor. So I passed up the chance to buy it. Later I found that they didn't know what they were talking about and that rig was within my entitlement. The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) (Amendment) (No 2) Regulations 2005 (SI 2005 No. 2717) clarifies things, so the matter should have been clear in the mind of all those professionals a year ago, which is when I asked.
To be honest, it was a very disturbing eye-opener when I uncovered the amount of fudging, disinformation, and lack of honesty (about their not knowing) I received from the authorities concerned. Some of the "advice" I received from DVLA could result in people inadvertently driving without a license or (by implication) insurance. Also, ignorant enforcers could have serious implications for people who are driving perfectly legally but not in accordance with an officer's mistaken belief.
Geoff
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25/1/2009 at 8:17pm
Location: south wales
Outfit: Sprite Musketeer
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As i am the original poster, i would like to thank all the replies from my post.
After a bit of technical stuff i have found the following-
The car weight is 1530Kg
Total gross weight of car with passengers etc is 2075 Kg( Car gross weight)
Total gross train weight is 3170 Kg
Maximum tow weight is 1055 Kg
Caravan MIRO 860KG
MTPLM 1100KG
After taking my caravan with all that i carry in it to a weighbridge it weighed 976Kg.
With all the passengers plus luggage in my car is approx
230 Kg for passengers - 2 adults and 2 children
plus approx 100Kg of luggage it would be approx 1860 Kg.
This would be a total train weight of 2836 Kg which is well below the total gross train weight of 3170 Kg as stated in the handbook
So, am i towing illegally?????????????????????????????
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