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I have no figures, but I have spent a good many years - too many - on the motorways, and I well remember every Friday night I used to take a coach down overnight to Newquay.

I never ever failed to see at least one caravan overturned on the M5.  One night I saw 3.  In my view it doesn't matter how many there are.  One is too many, especially if it's mine.

As to why it happens, I don't think you will find many people who disagree with the reasons I have given.  They are the generally accepted causes of caravan accidents,and have been for many years.  If you would like to add others, I would be very happy to discuss them. 

Equally, if you have any statistics, let's have a look at them.  I don't think there are very many, but as I said, I used to see at least 30 a year, so I have seen hundreds. Each one is disaster, if not a tragedy for the families involved, and it did actually hurt to see them.

The thing that does hurt is that it's generally - not always - preventable.

Jim

That's a very strange comment to make. I find it quite offensive. I'm not sure what your motives are.  I have just stated my opinion.  I am not relying on any statistics, because I don't have any. As I said in the first place. Let me repeat - I do not have any statistics.  I am just relaying my personal observations and the number of accidents I have seen. So you are wrong on every count.

I am, in fact, not too interested in how many accidents there are. Why would I be?  I'm not the Government, and I'm not the Police.  It has nothing to do with me, and I can't affect the situation at all, except insofar as it relates to my personal safety, so what would be my motive for scaremongering?  I don't play those childish games.

I just try to be as safe as I can be.  I presume by your tone that you don't.

Jim

He's got me worried now!   We have a four berth, side dinette layout. Bedding goes under the seats. Clothes are packed in the wardrobe and overhead lockers ready for use,  as are towels etc. Small box in cupboard under sink in bathroom containing toiletries, toothbrushes etc. Melamine crockery in the overhead cupboard where its always kept. All food in either folding box or large supermarket carrier on  floor, cos I dont want it falling out of the cupboard on the journey. Fridge stuff in fridge. We have aquaroll and wastemaster wedged in bathroom. Awning and poles over axle, we have the folding chairs in bags and lightweight alu table on floor also. Folding barbeque also on floor. TV (normal portable) wedged under table in side dinette. I also take half a dozen bottles of spring water, the wine and the beer (of course) on the floor.

So only thing I unpack when I get there are food crate/bags and the booze and water.

Never had anything move, never had a snake (no jokes please!) on the journey ... are we doing it wrong then?

"Do many people really travel with NOTHING in cupboards,"

I do..so that 's one. Anniemac all your heavy stuff on the floor and nothing heavy to fall out of cupboards looks fine.

We pack on the floor, mainly over the axel. (We don't put water hog/waste hog in bathroom). Everything weighed so I know that I am under the "85% rule" as we call it. Once loaded I check the noseweight with the Millenco guage and if its not about 70kg I shift the luggage around until it is. Then I check the wheel nuts with Torque wrench. Hitch up and then lift up the hitch to see if it lifts the car so I know its firmly on. Mirrors....Before I meet the main road from Storage I check mirrors to see that I can see a certain tree down the drive so I know I can see about the right distance behind the van in accordance with mirror regs (Well, I do like to see the trail behind me as I drive!!!)

Maybe over the top but then I have read the guidance from those who have caravanned for years, from road safety experts, from guidance given on CC course etc etc. and follow that as I know the sound safety reasons for  which it has all been issued. Surprised that it is challenged but then each to his own. I'm in the Greendemon gang on this

Phil

You've just said that you concentrate the heavy items on thefloor over the axle, which is what you should be doing.  As long as you are aware of the issues involved, you really shouldn't worry too much.

Yes, accidents do happen.  I've seen a lot of them.  But it doesn't mean it will happen to you.  The aquaroll and wastemaster don't weigh much, nor do melamine plates. I can't see a problem with what you're doing.

Jim

Rune Caster

Let's get one thing straight first of all.  The last couple of posts have been increasingly acrimonious, and I think we should both take a step back.  We're on the same side.  I'm not trying to fall out with you, and I hope you're not trying to fall out with me.  I like a good debate, but I'm not looking for an argument.

I last did the coach run about ten years ago.  Maybe people have learned something in the meantime. Let's hope so.  I do remember it put a dampener on every trip down there for some years.  Maybe, of course, as it was overnight, some of these were caused by the driver just falling asleep.

The figures you have are very interesting.  I am surprised that most of the accidents were on a dry road, although the accidents I witnessed on the M5 were all in the summer season, and mostly dry.

I don't think we can say whether or not 1% would be as a result of poor loading.  However, as I said before, it doesn't really matter.  If just one caravan is affected, it might be mine, or it might be yours.  I just do what I can to avoid that.  Similarly, I have a towcar that is larger and heavier than I actually need for my caravan (although it is a big one), I know what my noseweight is, I take care to avoid pendulum effect and I keep to the speed limits - or less if it's windy, icy, foggy or anything else.

I just do everything I can to keep us safe.  It's the sensible way.

I think the number of caravan miles travelled is much less than the coach and bus miles, so I can't altogether agree with you on that one. I do know that when I was in the industry, the figures showed you were safer on a coach than in your car.  But figures can show anything, can't they?

Fundamentally, I don't think caravan stability or safety is a big problem.  However, if it happens to YOU it's an enormous problem, and maybe a tragedy.  That's where the importance lies.

I have no agenda or desire to "convert" or frighten anyone.  I am just expressing what I believe to be a sensible point of view.  I know it from both sides, because for many years I have been in the business of towing other people's trailers, and have had many snakes and blowouts.  I could write a book....   So in my own personal travels I just try to do the best I can.

It doesn't take much effort to be safe, and I feel it's worth it.  I have no objection if others don't take the same care - as long as they don't crash in front of me.  It's a free country, and I respect the right of choice.

If someone asks me what I think, I just tell them what I do myself, and that's what I recommend.

Jim

Thank you gentlemen for your reassuring replies.

Annie

Hi Phil

Once again we're in agreement.  That's pretty scary, but you're obviously a fine and discerning gentleman.  I like the sound of the Greendemon Gang.  We must start a new caravan club with that name.  I have been known to arrive in your neck of the woods, staying at a CL in Flamborough.  Next time we're there, I'll see if you're available for a chat.

Regards to all

Jim

Wear something green so I can spot you!

Phil

I shall remove all my clothing and paint my body green.  I did once, but it was by accident.  Full story available on request.

Jim

That's really a lot of stuff Jennifer.  Those are the people who get into trouble. It's not if, it's when.

You're quite right about having heavy stuff low down and near the middle. We go a bit further than that, probably because I've seen so many accidents and been obliged to tow so many unstable loads myself.  When you do it for a living, you can't be too picky, and sometimes it's just not possible to alter a load.  Also, old tyres with cracked sidewalls have been a fact of my life for a lot of years.

If I refused everything that wasn't right, I wouldn't have eaten.  More trailers than not - caravans included - were not really fit to tow for one reason or another.

That's probably why I'm extra careful with my own outfit.  Whether or not it's ready to use the moment we stop just isn't important to me. That's convenience, which comes quite a bit below safety.  If I can have both, fine, if not there's only one choice really.

Jim

We have some utensils in the cupboard under the sink, saucepans in cupboard under cooker (over axel) but nothing in foot lockers and nothing under bed. Think we must travel light but always have with us as much as we need. There is only the two of us

Phil