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Subject Topic: UKCS Club?
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04/2/2013 at 8:32am
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I long ago came to the realisation that virtually every one of them was an egomaniac, and that they would sport their golden chains while emptying the Elsan, if they thought they could ;)


So you lost out in the election...just take it graciously

Leave UKCS alone..pay money for your other sites but at least let us have somewhere left to rant off ( about not being elected )


04/2/2013 at 9:58am
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Quote: Originally posted by millermicm on 04/2/2013
Quote: Originally posted by les8366 on 03/2/2013

I've never understood why 'senior' members think they deserve a discount on sites 





I don't know that senior members do think they DESERVE a discount. It's marketing Les. Attracting a group of campers that usually camp out of high season when sites are quiet and any income is better than no income.
Also the theory is that older people are on modest pensions and need help. That's why they get bus passes and reduced rate TV licence. That's compassion Les.
I hope you are old one day. Everyone deserves to be.



So to clarify then a senior couple with no children to support or mortgage to pay deserve to be subsided by those of us with children to feed and a mortgage to pay earning minimum wage with the threat of redundancy ever looming.

Oh I can't wait to be old.


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04/2/2013 at 10:03am
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...those of us with children to feed and a mortgage to pay earning minimum wage with the threat of redundancy ever looming.

Been there, done that


Old is great and so satisfying...will you younger people stop moaning and continue to work hard so we can continue to enjoy our subsidies...

Post last edited on 04/02/2013 10:25:37


04/2/2013 at 12:02pm
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I'm with you SG.Been there, done that and got the T-Shirt.


04/2/2013 at 1:04pm
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Quote: Originally posted by SGThomas on 04/2/2013


So you lost out in the election...just take it graciously


The only official position that I would ever consider would be that of Supreme Leader - not only of the CCC, but of Britain, and (hopefully) the entire world!

What's more, I'd be extremely good at ordering people to obey me - at least, that's Mrs Oldfolder's opinion, and she should know...

Quote:

Leave UKCS alone..pay money for your other sites but at least let us have somewhere left to rant off ( about not being elected )




Oi! - the idea of a UKCS club was not mine! - but if it ever comes to fruition, you can be sure that I'd propose a motion banning Holtkampers! -;)



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Getting Old, Staying Active (much to Mrs Folder's dismay..)


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05/2/2013 at 11:00am
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Go on, hijack away!

Beginning to look like the CC Readers' Letters.

Maybe UKCS is not the place to originate an alternative Club but there is plenty dissatisfaction with the existing clubs and room for maybe a "Five 'Van and tent" club?

It's just that we have a huge database on here and that is a great start to a new club.

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playing at tinkies


05/2/2013 at 7:27pm
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In fairness to the clubs, you will always get some dissatisfaction. The reality is that the clubs plough a lot of money back into new sites and upgrading the existing ones. Whether you describe this as "profit" is debatable as while they are increasing their assets, they are doing this for the benefit of the members.

The only people a new club would be likely to poach from the other clubs would be the dissatisfied members. Given that the new club would not have the resources or the facilities of the existing clubs then the members they managed to poach would be even less satisfied with the new club than they were with the existing clubs and as such would be complaining to the organisers a lot, necessitating someone to be paid to handle these complaints and ultimately at the end of the year, not renewing their membership.

To start a new one, would involve a LOT of work and a LOT of money. Given the club would not have the facilities of the established ones, this would have to be reflected in the membership fees. It would take a huge number of members, even at the same fee the existing clubs charge in order to build a club up to any where near the established clubs and as such would need to be started by someone who was prepared to give the new club a sizeable loan (I am thinking in the tens of millions if not more) and also be prepared to risk never getting the loan repaid if the venture did not work.

Even if I had the millions of pounds it would take to start such a venture and the time to spend in doing it, the risk is insurmountable. The chances of ever seeing your money ever getting returned are remote.

I think there was an opportunity a couple of years ago for a club to be established that could get an exemption certificate and run solely as a rally club, but with many club centres cancelling rallies now due to poor attendance, those days are over, at least for the time being.

I am also unsure about how many exemption certificates would be required. I know that each of the English Caravan Club Centres has their own (issued by the Environment Agency IIRC), and that the Welsh Centres each have their own issued by the Welsh Assembly. If a club could get one exemption certificate to cover them nationally or even one for England, one for Wales, and one for Scotland then I would have thought the Caravan Club would do that rather than having each of the Centres applying for their own.


06/2/2013 at 11:17am
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I was thinking of more modest beginnings. A small network of 5 van sites which costs a club nothing as the owners provide the sites.

No need for legal department etc - just a mutual with a couple of paid staff and maybe volunteers as well.


Possibly start with one run down site and improve it over time if it does ok?


From little Acorns ...

I just had the idea and hoped someone (not me thanks)might consider it worth taking further - not yourself obviously.

I would certainly pay a modest annual sub to get something going but I'd baulk at putting my millions into it!

Edit: I'd need the reduced rate for seniors though.

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06/2/2013 at 12:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by oxter on 06/2/2013
I was thinking of more modest beginnings. A small network of 5 van sites which costs a club nothing as the owners provide the sites.

No need for legal department etc - just a mutual with a couple of paid staff and maybe volunteers as well.




Yes, but the "club" would still need an exemption certificate from the Government or whoever it is that deals with this nowadays and I'm sure they don't just hand them out willynilly. Without the exemption certificate the site owners would need to have to apply for planning permission for the site if they are starting up new and if they have planning permission already then the site already exists and will be on the UKCampsite database anyway.


06/2/2013 at 1:48pm
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Quote: Originally posted by DaveCoaches on 04/2/2013
Quote: Originally posted by millermicm on 04/2/2013
Quote: Originally posted by les8366 on 03/2/2013

I've never understood why 'senior' members think they deserve a discount on sites 




I don't know that senior members do think they DESERVE a discount. It's marketing Les. Attracting a group of campers that usually camp out of high season when sites are quiet and any income is better than no income.
Also the theory is that older people are on modest pensions and need help. That's why they get bus passes and reduced rate TV licence. That's compassion Les.
I hope you are old one day. Everyone deserves to be.



So to clarify then a senior couple with no children to support or mortgage to pay deserve to be subsided by those of us with children to feed and a mortgage to pay earning minimum wage with the threat of redundancy ever looming.

Oh I can't wait to be old.




I didn't say that old folks do deserve to be subsidised. What I did say was that "I don't know that old folk do think they deserve......."
I also said that the theory was that old folks on modest pensions need help.

Most of those of pensionable age will also have brought up a family on a modest wage and paid a mortgage with the threat of redundancy looming.



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06/2/2013 at 3:05pm
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Yes, but the "club" would still need an exemption certificate from the Government or whoever it is that deals with this nowadays and I'm sure they don't just hand them out willynilly. Without the exemption certificate the site owners would need to have to apply for planning permission for the site if they are starting up new and if they have planning permission already then the site already exists and will be on the UKCampsite database anyway.


Well I can't say I'm up on these things but AFAIK there is not a requirement to be affiliated to CC or C&CC to set up a 5 van site and I believe that unlike setting up a "real" caravan site, a much lesser procedure than planning permission is involved. May be some local Authority red tape to go through but I think it is straightforward enough. Some sites have virtually no facilities while others have everything from wifi to excellent San. Facs. Some are listed in CC CL' s but in fact have permission from the LA for more than 5 but the CC are happy to keep them on the list.
Is there anything to stop a site from being with both Clubs?
Certainly most sites I have stayed on are not interested in membership cards etc so I imagine business is business and anyone is welcome.
We inherited a C & CC book with our current 'van and have stayed on their CS's without I/D.

Maybe someone who knows the legislation and the hoops to be jumped through can advise?



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06/2/2013 at 3:47pm
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Exemption Certificates are issued by:

Natural England which is a Department of DEFRA (The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Activities), or


The Welsh Assembly Government (Planning Division), or

The Scottish Government (Housing Markets Supply Division)


06/2/2013 at 4:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by oxter on 06/2/2013

Well I can't say I'm up on these things but AFAIK there is not a requirement to be affiliated to CC or C&CC to set up a 5 van site and I believe that unlike setting up a "real" caravan site, a much lesser procedure than planning permission is involved. May be some local Authority red tape to go through but I think it is straightforward enough. Some sites have virtually no facilities while others have everything from wifi to excellent San. Facs. Some are listed in CC CL' s but in fact have permission from the LA for more than 5 but the CC are happy to keep them on the list.
Is there anything to stop a site from being with both Clubs?
Certainly most sites I have stayed on are not interested in membership cards etc so I imagine business is business and anyone is welcome.
We inherited a C & CC book with our current 'van and have stayed on their CS's without I/D.

Maybe someone who knows the legislation and the hoops to be jumped through can advise?





CLs/CSs and other "5 van sites" run by other organisations all arose out of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. Normally you would need planning permission (or strictly speaking a site licence) to run a campsite but under that act certain organisations were permitted to approve sites for up to 5 vans for use by theoir own members, but they have to abide by certain conditions and do it properly or they could have their exemption certificate taken away from them. All the details are on the Natural England website and there you can download a full guide to what's involved if you're interested. If you want to run a 5 van site you can't just do it, you have to do it under one of the Clubs or other exempted organisations.

My own view is that I don't think it would be quite as straighforward as you might think to set yourself up as a new exempted organisation, or to run a 5 van site network properly. It's the club that does all the admistration and monitoring - I don't think the Local Authority gets involved at all.

As to staying on a CS or CL without being asked for your membership card - I know this happens a lot but the CS/CL owner are actually in breach of the conditions as these sites are for members only. Strictly speaking the Clubs should remove these sites from the network (which would mean they could no longer operate) as the Clubs'own exemption certificate could be in jeopardy by allowing nonmembers onto the sites. If that were to happen all their CSs or CLs would disappear overnight. I'm surprised the Clubs allow quite so much non checking of membership cards (and other breaches such as too many vans at one time) by CS/CL owners but perhaps they don't get to hear about it or perhaps just don't want to open up that can of worms.


06/2/2013 at 4:24pm
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Ok - I get the picture and thanks for the information.

My lips are sealed re breaches etc.



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06/2/2013 at 10:30pm
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A genuine members club sounds appealing but I have been in such organisations outside caravanning. You depend on people to give their time to run it and at the end of the day members will not agree with the " management" as we are all different. The best bit of the CC in my opinion is the bits they are least involved in - CLs and rallies. Sadly we need the rest.
I have an intense dislike of their attitude re member safety being prejudiced because of manufacturers' interests - an issue clearly demonstrated to me recently.
I have been a member for nearly 40 years and will probably remain so because of the good bits.

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07/2/2013 at 9:01am
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first of all thanks to les for being so hard working (keep at it sonny) and subsidising my meagre pensions i worked all my life for .gone are the days when i HAD to go on holiday with six kids in tow in either a canvas or tin tent ,gone also are the days when we took the grandchildren on the same holidays and left there parents to fly off abroad .
gone to are the days of larger caravans and larger cars to tow them there .now our foreign holiday days are also over and we exist on a couple of WORKED for pensions ,we now have to be carefull where we spend the meagre amount thats left after paying the bills we tow a small two berth caravan with a small economic car and if we can get it cheaper we bloody well will .

so if anything ever gets done about forming a club from members on here and we can then apply a bit of extra leverage to get costs down further so be it ,i'm first in line

COME BACK VICTOR MELDREW ALL IS FORGIVEN



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