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Subject Topic: SELLING CARAVANS
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28/5/2017 at 10:03am
 Location: Northern Ireland
 Outfit: Sterckeman Alize Concept CP480
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What we have no information on, so far ... is, how many letters/phone calls did OP receive before being told his caravan had been sold.
i.e. did the storage owner follow any normal procedure to recover the debt before selling off the caravan?


28/5/2017 at 10:08am
 Location: None Entered
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We had no warning what so ever


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28/5/2017 at 10:59am
 Location: Sheffield
 Outfit: Sterling Eccles Sport 636
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So did she sell your van for £800 or £1000 as you have said both?

When was the £400 due that you owed the land owner? Was is a long overdue debt?


28/5/2017 at 11:35am
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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I agree that we are not in full possession of all the facts here, but to my way of thinking there are several unanswered questions.
1.     Was the caravan registered to the O/P under the CRIS system?
2.     If it was, did the O/P hand over the registration papers to the storage operator at any time?
3.     Did the O/P sign any agreement with the storage operator allowing them to sell the caravan in the event of non-payment?
4.     Did the buyer ask for the CRIS papers, and if they didn’t, why not? (Ignorance of the scheme or malicious intent?)

I don’t fully understand the CRIS system as my caravan is too old to be registered under it, but as I understand it, the registration infers ownership. If this is so, and the O/P still has the CRIS papers, they are still the legal owner of the caravan whatever dispute they may have with the storage operator over payment for storage.

As I see it, unless the O/P has given their permission for the van to be disposed of, or the storage operator has obtained a court order giving them permission to seize the caravan and dispose of it, the caravan still belongs to the O/P and they have every right to recover it by any reasonable means.

Seizing someone else’s property, and disposing of it without the owner’s consent or a court order being granted allowing such disposal remains a criminal offence in my opinion, whatever the circumstances. Surely the only right the storage operator had was to deny the owner access over their land to the caravan, until the caravan owner paid what was due?   

I must stress though, I am not a lawyer so what I have said is only as I understand it. I would suggest that legal representation be sought in this instance.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


28/5/2017 at 7:07pm
 Location: Northern Ireland
 Outfit: Sterckeman Alize Concept CP480
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If no warning letter or phone call ... then it was sold illegally.


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29/5/2017 at 2:32pm
 Location: Wirral
 Outfit: Swift Freestyle 520 on seasonal pitch
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My feeling is that its illegal. But when people can't afford storage fees, they certainly can't afford legal fees. So its maybe not been tested in court, and owners get away with it..... despite what someones mate says they get up to.
I have a sneaking feeling that this case was an "off the record" private arrangement with nothing spelled out. May be wrong, though.


29/5/2017 at 3:03pm
 Location: None Entered
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Thank you


29/5/2017 at 3:38pm
 Location: Glasgow
 Outfit: Elddis Avante 454
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I think that having a tracker fitted would be handy in thus sort of situation. I would try to recover my caravan from the person who bought it and argue with anyone who objected that it is mine. The problem is finding it. Simply report it to the police as stolen would be a start. "I went to get my caravan for my holiday and it has been stolen" should get action from the police, let them investigate the legality and see proof that warnings were given.

-------------
We camped for years. In 2019 we bought an Elddis Avante 454. We like it as it is short (6.9m) and fits in our driveway and has a fixed bed.
We had 127 nights away in the caravan in 2023.


29/5/2017 at 7:42pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Was the caravan CRIS registered to you bikerbaz68? If so, and you still have the paperwork, it may be worth contacting them. How about the insurance, was it insured? If so, contact the insurers telling them it has been stolen, which in my opinion it has.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


29/5/2017 at 9:29pm
 Location: Sheffield
 Outfit: Sterling Eccles Sport 636
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Cris doesn't prove legal ownership, anymore than a v5 does for a car.

There is more to this than meets the eye imho.


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29/5/2017 at 11:45pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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I must admit I don't know much about CRIS as my caravan is too old to be included, so it seems to me that if CRIS doesn't prove legal ownership, what's the point of it?

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


30/5/2017 at 8:06am
 Location: Sheffield
 Outfit: Sterling Eccles Sport 636
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 29/5/2017
I must admit I don't know much about CRIS as my caravan is too old to be included, so it seems to me that if CRIS doesn't prove legal ownership, what's the point of it?



It helps the police track the registered keeper should they find a stolen van same as a car registration does.

Doesn't prove you own it though, could be on finance etc ..


30/5/2017 at 1:09pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Quote: Originally posted by checkley1973 on 30/5/2017
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 29/5/2017
I must admit I don't know much about CRIS as my caravan is too old to be included, so it seems to me that if CRIS doesn't prove legal ownership, what's the point of it?



It helps the police track the registered keeper should they find a stolen van same as a car registration does.

Doesn't prove you own it though, could be on finance etc ..



Ah I see. So it would show that the O/P of this thread was the registered keeper if he/she had the CRIS registration papers in their name? What would happen if the buyer in this case tried to register it in their name? Could the O/P contact CRIS and report it as stolen? As I believe it is.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


30/5/2017 at 3:28pm
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Keep your payments up to date and do not owe anyone any money. If they are providing you a service then pay them on time for goodness sake. It would have saved you all this hassle, I fail to see why anyone should tolerate late or non payment. They have a living to make!

-------------
Not ALL Newts get p**sed.

“Semper Fidelis”


30/5/2017 at 5:51pm
 Location: Sheffield
 Outfit: Sterling Eccles Sport 636
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 30/5/2017
Quote: Originally posted by checkley1973 on 30/5/2017
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 29/5/2017
I must admit I don't know much about CRIS as my caravan is too old to be included, so it seems to me that if CRIS doesn't prove legal ownership, what's the point of it?



It helps the police track the registered keeper should they find a stolen van same as a car registration does.

Doesn't prove you own it though, could be on finance etc ..



Ah I see. So it would show that the O/P of this thread was the registered keeper if he/she had the CRIS registration papers in their name? What would happen if the buyer in this case tried to register it in their name? Could the O/P contact CRIS and report it as stolen? As I believe it is.



they could but then they would have to prove it was actually stolen and given the lack of response and information from the OP I would suggest it probably wouldn't qualify as being stolen. If the land owner shows the contract and the contact attempts they could reasonably demonstrate the van was sold quite legally. No different to a repossession of a car. If you don't pay the finance it will be taken off you and sold. I understand there are some legal differences in that finance companies take a charge on the vehicle however if you sign a contract it is as good as the same.


30/5/2017 at 5:57pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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I don't think anyone has suggested that anyone should tolerate late or non-payment, Mike3003, it's more about what they do about it. There are correct and legal ways of collecting debts, and then there is taking the law into your own hands, which is illegal. As is selling someone else's property without going through the proper legal channels. I have been owed money when I had my own business, and I know what it's like! However, I never broke the law when trying to collect it, even though at times it was tempting.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin



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