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Topic: Lithium leisure battery in caravan..

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Francais

25/11/2020 at 9:49pm
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Yep trog100, for the money you have got a pretty good set up there, does the LiFeP04 battery have low temperature cut of, if not make sure the Solar Controller has, just been watching one of the Will Prowse vids, and charging a LiFeP04 battery below 0 can cost you at least 10% capacity permanently.

Which 100Ah LiFeP04 battery did you get.

I am still doing my research, but waiting for batteries to come down in price, would rather by of the shelf than build my own, but £500 is still to much to pay for a 100Ah battery, they need to be at least half that price, which I am sure they will be in the next couple of years.

There is some interesting stuff going with batteries, and even Carbon Foam LA batteries seem to be getting attention at the moment, they are just as heavy as good old SLA if not more, but offer 2000 cycles or more, but are not far of the price of LiFeP04.

I will remain firmly on the fence for the time being.

trog100

26/11/2020 at 12:34pm
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Francais

i started off buying a floureon 500WH portable powerbank.. its around 45 AH and cost £312 quid..

as things often do with me this lead to a full solar install with first the 100 AH ebay battery fitted in the van and then a 150 watt panel and then another 150 watt panel followed by a better controller..

so all in i have around 150 amps of stored lithium battery power.. i also carry a small 1000 watt generator for emergencies..

the solar set up should remove the need for the generator..

basically i treat my caravan plus tow truck as a motor hone that comes apart in the middle if i want it to.. the weak spot is weight carrying ability.. the caravan is very limited compared to a real motor home..

i have an onboard water tank in the van and carry extra water in the back of my truck plus the generator..

my cheaper lithium battery does not have auto below freezing charging shut off.. this is something i am going to investigate further.. for how i use my van i dont see this being much of a problem..

trog

ps.. interestingly i have in the last couple of weeks spent more on my caravan than i paid for it in the first place six years ago.. :)

Post last edited on 26/11/2020 12:48:44

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trog100

26/11/2020 at 4:42pm
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i have gone the whole hog and ordered another 100 AH lithium battery.. he he..

300 watts of solar panels and 200 AH of usable lithium storage should make my little van totally independent of power hook ups or alternator charging..

the total costs are now around £1300 quid..

trog

Francais

26/11/2020 at 5:54pm
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Yep trog, check out the latest video from Will Prowse on YouTube, interesting tear down of a 140Ah LiFeP04 battery, with built in heater.

trog100

27/11/2020 at 3:02pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 26/11/2020
Yep trog, check out the latest video from Will Prowse on YouTube, interesting tear down of a 140Ah LiFeP04 battery, with built in heater.

i am a fair weather camper.. during the winter my van mostly sits in my back garden.. when i wire in my second battery i am going to install a main isolater switch near the batteries and so that i can switch it all off..

prowse is an american and talks american weather conditions.. i think for me at least fancy batteries with built in heaters are a tad overkill..

when not in use once charged there is no further need for any more charging.. it can all be switched off during the colder freezing parts of the winter..

also when in use the lithium batteries can (should) be inside the van and will never get that cold..

the bottom line being lithium batteries should not be installed outside like lead acid batteries normally are.. there is no need..

trog

ps.. one thing i am sure off.. at this time of year my solar panels are putting next to nothing into my battery.. :)

Post last edited on 27/11/2020 15:21:17

Francais

27/11/2020 at 4:15pm
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Yep trog I agree with your points, and a battery with built in heater is not really necessary for Europe, although it was an interesting video by Will Prowse I thought.

I think having a LiFeP04 battery that has low temperature cut off is a good idea though, to save you from accidentally charging at below 0 Deg C, even if the Solar Charger also has low temperature cut off, you can’t beat a belt and braces approach.

By the time I get around to buying a LiFeP04 100Ah battery, low temperature cut off built in will probably come as standard.

trog100

07/12/2020 at 5:51pm
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just a quick update.. i have added a 1000 watt inverter to my system..

this will have a shore power plug going into the shore power socket compartment.. i can ether plug in normal shore power or the inverter..

this will off grid power the vans 240 volt system similar to being plugged into the mains but being limited to 1000 watts..

i can run my fridge and boil a quick cup of tea (650 watt travel kettle) or even run the vans water heater which i think is around 850 watts..

i have yet to try any of this for real but i think during the summer time with more daylight hours it should do the job i want it to..

trog

navver

07/12/2020 at 8:43pm
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This is ringing big alarm bells to me.

Normal mains wiring comes with an earth connection which goes to earth rods in the ground. The chassis of caravans and presumably motor homes is connected to that earth.

If you have 240 volt power from an invertor without an EHU connection you will have no earth but the chassis of your MH will be connected to it. The chassis could easily become live and give you a nasty shock or worse. So with you standing on the ground at earth potential, the MH body and chassis could be at quite a high voltage above earth. That means maximum power flowing through you.

Mains power supplies also have the neutral earthed at the source to hold the whole system to earth potential. Presumably your invertor may require an earth connection.

I don't know the answer to this but perhaps the invertor instructions may say something. My advice would be don't try it until you know the answer.

trog100

07/12/2020 at 9:38pm
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short of driving a metal rod two feet into the ground no inverter or generator is properly earthed..

house wiring is earthed via the water pipes or it used to be mine is..

lots of modern appliances are made of plastic and dont use three core wire.. they have no earth..

so basically its a metal rod driven two feet into the ground and connected to the inverter or generator or the van chassis to be proper.. an earth literally does mean what it says..

some folks might do this but i dont think its that common..

i am not sure if my vans electrics are earthed to the chassis i dont think they are.. but basically both inverters and generators should be earthed via a metal rod driven two feet into the ground..

you do bring up a valid point through.. inverter are very common.. mine wont get used much it will ether be 12 volt or gas when not moving..

trog

saxo1

via mobile 07/12/2020 at 9:57pm
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Unless the inverter neutral is connected to earth it will be a floating neutral similar to a suitcase generated and as such there would be no potential difference.
Saxo1

saxo1

07/12/2020 at 10:20pm
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Driving earth rods down to 600mm without prior knowledge of what is below can be extremely dangerous and possibly very expensive!
saxo1

trog100

08/12/2020 at 3:40am
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i have done a fair bit of research into solar-inverter-12 volt powered camper vans and motor homes.. its pretty common..

very little is said about how its all grounded.. in fact next to nothing is said about it.. larger motor homes come with inverters as basic kit..

quite clearly they dont get out and drive a metal rod into the ground every time they want to make cup of tea..

my van has three mains powered things fitted.. the water heater fridge and a couple of lights there is nothing metal with mains near it.. the heater is covered in thick foam insulation and the fringe is all wood and plastic on the outside..

i have run it all off a generator before.. a battery powered inverter should do pretty much the same thing.. i can only assume that grounding it all isnt considered that important in a world where everything is made of plastic and a lot of thing only come with two core cable..

trog

saxo1

08/12/2020 at 10:07am
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There are several factors to consider if you intend to run the 230V system in a motorhome via an inverter.
You must ensure that you can't inadvertently connect to the mains while still on the inverter.
If you are using more than one class one insulated appliance then the inverter should be modified so that the neutral is connected to the protective earth conductor at the inverter and an RCD fitted. If only class 2 insulated appliances are used then there is no need to modify the inverter.
Driving earth rods in achieves nothing if the inverter isn't modified and apart from the risk of driving rods into underground cables etc you can possibly make the situation worse by creating overlapping earth zones.
saxo1

Andy Higham

08/12/2020 at 11:24am
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An earth rod will do half of nothing when running "off grid"
Earthing only works because there is an earth connection in the substation, it is the neutral connection that is earthed. If a cable inside an appliance becomes disconnected and touches the casing it has the return path through the earth connection back to the substation, it will then blow the fuse/MCB.
An RCD will protect the user in all cases, mains or "off grid" this works by measuring the current on both live and neutral connections and will trip if there is inbalance above 30ma. 30ma is considered a safe current for a human

saxo1

08/12/2020 at 11:32am
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An RCD won't work off grid if the inverter/generator hasn't been modified but the risk of a shock is negligible if it hasn't if only using class2 appliances.
saxo1

trog100

08/12/2020 at 1:18pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 08/12/2020
An RCD won't work off grid if the inverter/generator hasn't been modified but the risk of a shock is negligible if it hasn't if only using class2 appliances.
saxo1

basically having done a lot of research on the subject i have decided that for me and the way i intend to use my inverter it will all work fine and be safe enough..

others may think differently but that is their choice..

thanks for all advice offered and stay safe in these strange times..

trog

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