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Quote: Originally posted by Gypsydoll on 23/9/2009

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We never take a `flash' totally on trust anyway, whether it's from a tractor driver/truck driver/whatever. It is helpful & very appreciated a lot of the time but on occasions we have been fgiven the `safe to pass flash' when only a total idiot would attempt it- too close to a blind bend etc.

 

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Another way of looking at this is

I can drive my outfit

I know the lenth and how long it takes to pass slower vehicles

My mirrors are fitted correctly

So I dont really need you amataurs to flash your lights at me on the road

I can also reverse so I dont need your expert help on site either !

Now now Big Al, I do see your point - especially as being a very slightly built woman I have oh sooooo often had blokes `help' guide me in to parking spaces , & for the record if it's humanly possible to get a vehicle into a space - or out - I can in all honesty say I can & will do so with ease & efficiency.  it's bloody irritating when you know damned well they wouldn't dream of assuming you needed help if you were a bloke !

However it's better that people at least want to help isn't isn' t ? Gives me a bit of faith in human nature as most of the time it seems there are such a lot of nasty rude selfish t*****s everywhere - apart from us campers of course !

"Door mirrors are a legal requirement too but that doesn't stop people folding them in so they are flat against the door or having their interior mirror lined up so they can watch the kids in the back so by that reckoning even if somejobsworth did have a magic tape measure that made my caravan suddenly get wider I still have the towing mirrors in the van, they just aren't aligned very well.

It's also a legal requirement to have an audible indicator to show the indicators on the caravan are working. These are usually fitted in the boot. How many people cover them with luggage resulting in them being impossible to hear? "

All of the above may well be true, but that still does not alter the fact that towing mirrors are a legal requirement if the caravan is wider than the towing vehicle.

Steve W

Quote: Originally posted by Viggo on 23/9/2009The responsibility for any driver's actions remain with the driver - so if I have an accident after acting solely on a signal from you, it's still my fault

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Quote: Originally posted by oldbwl on 27/9/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by Viggo on 23/9/2009The responsibility for any driver's actions remain with the driver - so if I have an accident after acting solely on a signal from you, it's still my fault

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Erm that is not true at all. There are plenty of cases quoted in Binghams (the bible I used at work to resolve motor claims - I was a claims manager) about misleading signals e.g. Wadsworth vs. Gillespie which show that the driver giving a wrong signal could be held 1/3rd responsible and in Winter V Cotton it was actually 100%. It is no where as cut and dried as you think.

Flashing of the headlights can be relied upon (incorrectly perhaps) by some drivers as a signal that it is safe to move over, yet it may have been given as a "Hey watch out you are getting too close". As there is no clear use other than as a warning to say "I am here", courtesy or not, it is not advised to flash to say thank you or to say it is safe.

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Cripes ! That's horribly illuminating.

I flash other drivers to say "thanks" a lot (for holding back where not room for us both to pass etc) & would never have dreamed of this. Lordy, it's a barmy old world. Is there any common sense left in the World of law/insurance etc I wonder ?

Wise thinking Bob ! I'd flash you on though - if you know what I mean....  but you'd have to promise not to claim I was giving you "misleading signals"  

Quote: Originally posted by oldbwl on 27/9/2009

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Quote: Originally posted by Viggo on 23/9/2009The responsibility for any driver's actions remain with the driver - so if I have an accident after acting solely on a signal from you, it's still my fault

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Erm that is not true at all. There are plenty of cases quoted in Binghams (the bible I used at work to resolve motor claims - I was a claims manager) about misleading signals e.g. Wadsworth vs. Gillespie which show that the driver giving a wrong signal could be held 1/3rd responsible and in Winter V Cotton it was actually 100%. It is no where as cut and dried as you think.

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Interesting and, like the man in orthopaedic shoes, I stand corrected.

 I'd not heard of those contradictary legal cases, but a little research shows that the two-thirds to a third responsibility is the one most often applied, and then it would very much depend on the exact circumstance and whether witnesses can confirm that the incorrect signal was given. If it was just the word of Driver A versus the word of Driver B, things are likely to be different.

Also, apparently, Winter v Cotton differs from Wadsworth/Gillespie in that the vehicle indicating also slowed down to make the turn before accelerating again into a collision.

 

I think we all take a chance when we flash when driving.  It means different things to different people - and different things in different countries.  In France it tends to mean get out of the way I'm coming.  But then, they use indicators differently - on the outside (fast) lane of a motorway to let people know they have absolutely no intention in moving back into a slower lane.  Unfortunately, few of them use indicators when turning left or right.

I do sometimes wonder about using indicators at islands in this country.  I can understand using the indicators to come off an island, but as we are all going around the island the same way, *there are times* when indicating right to go around the island causes confusion.  I think reading the road and making the appropriate signal as you see it at the time is the sensible option - it's all about letting other people know what you intend to do.

There are times when flashing means 'thank you', or 'get out the way I'm coming', or 'it's safe to pull in in front of me', or 'slow down, accident further up the road', or 'there's something wrong with your car/caravan', or even 'there's a speed trap just around the corner' etc.  It's just a question of reading the road - and mind reading.  Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow and flash when the spirit moves you.