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Subject Topic: insurance ! what a rip off !!
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Personficklejade
21/8/2014 at 10:06am
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Quote: Originally posted by miss baritone on 20/8/2014
The first thing you hear when you call us is a message asking you to answer questions to the best of your knowledge and belief. Of course you can't be 100% certain in all cases but some things are obvious. The majority of cars don't come fitted with tow Bars so that needs to be declared. We aren't trying to rip you off. Minor modifications don't affect the premium. However some modifications can make the car more desirable to thieves. Therefore they are higher risk and the premium will be higher. If someone decides not to declare their modifications to avoid paying that higher premium is that fair? They have deliberately misled the company so why should we pay out. If we did that would mean higher costs to the company which would then get passed back in increased premiums to everyone else. At the end of the day an insurance company is a business not a charity.


I can your point miss baritone as regards failing to answer truthfully but in my case, with a third hand car - a 4x4 that, presumably had been insured previously and to which records would be available - I was asked if there were any mods. I don't tow any more (last time a couple of decades ago!) and don't need to so never even thought to mention it and in any event I was asked if I had made any mods. I did tell them my safety radio was hard-wired in but otherwise it was as bought.

I'm not having a go here, just it does come up as confusing. Because of what I do and where I live, I'm scrupulously honest about my driving history and what I know of the vehicle so if I was charged an admin fee or had a policy increase because of it, or was told I wasn't covered, I would be very unhappy. Lots of 4x4s do have towbars, so how am I - the third owner - to know if this was factory fitted or not, especially as the towbar isn't of importance to me?

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" When I die I don`t want my life to flash before me in an instant, I want it to be a 3 hour epic !"


Personmiss baritone
21/8/2014 at 10:26am
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This seems to be another myth. Insurance companies do not have access to each others records. If a car was insured with another company and a modification was declared, then you buy it and decide to insure with our company. We cannot check previous insurance records to see if any modifications were declared. As has been previously said, answers the questions to the best of your knowledge and belief. If you aren't sure about anything ask and we will do our best to try and help.

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Personmikegalagher
21/8/2014 at 11:01am
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Why the fixation on WHO fitted a towbar?

Tell them it exists. If they ask who fitted it, tell them if you know. If you don't know, you can't tell them. It really isn't difficult.

AFAIK, the only shared database is on claims, for anti-fraud purposes.

Not a bad thing, surely?

In 2012, over 124,000 cases of general insurance fraud were detected, involving £1.1 billion.

Over £1B. All to be paid for by the rest of us.

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Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017


PersonAcornis
29/8/2014 at 10:41pm
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Got around to phoning my insurance company today, you know the one with the dog, made out I couldn't remember if I told them or not when I changed the car recently, or if they needed to know. they said they would need to amend the policy, no additional charge, (sorry BB not even an amendment charge) They would however be sending out a new policy as there was a change to the policy.
Oh Yos.
This has really made some (including me) sit up, I have mentioned to several friends who never thought to declare this as a modification.
Going back to BBs original post, it was the fact that he was charged by the company for making the alteration as there was no additional premium charge. I have found, having recently changed address, how some companies charge, whilst some don't for what seems a simple process.

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Just saying
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Personbillyboggins
29/8/2014 at 10:58pm
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Glad to be of service !!

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billyboggins


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PersonRonPlatt
30/8/2014 at 8:11am
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I have never been charged extra for towbar, obviously worth mentioning to insurer just to cover yourself but all comprehensive policies state that any trailer or caravan you tow is covered for 3rd party risks along with car.

For this reason I'm failing to see how towbar can be classed as a modification if policy specifically states you are covered for towing.

If you are charged extra for towbar then question it & ask to speak to manager because it will probably be error by call centre staff.


Personmikegalagher
30/8/2014 at 10:09am
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Quote: Originally posted by RonPlatt on 30/8/2014
.... obviously worth mentioning to insurer just to cover yourself...

For this reason I'm failing to see how towbar can be classed as a modification....


So why mention it ?

Road traffic law says that anything being towed is part of the vehicle and therefore the vehicle insurance has to provide the minimum cover required.

There's no cover on the thing being towed, nor is there any cover under the vehicle policy whilst the thing is detached.

None of that in any way shape or form alters the duty of disclosure of material facts. And what is material is for the insurer to decide, not the insured. In the context of this topic, some underwriters will want to know, and charge (maybe calling it an admin fee), some won't charge, some won't be interested.

Aside from legal obligations, insurance is about peace of mind. Making assumptions takes that away.

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Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017


Personesdxc37
30/8/2014 at 1:21pm
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I called my insurance company and told them I had a towball fitted recently and yes they amended my policy and sent out a new one at no extra charge


Personmikegalagher
30/8/2014 at 2:23pm
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Job done. Painless. Peace of mind

-------------
Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
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Personbigstu99
30/8/2014 at 3:52pm
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Just renewed with swift cover and they charge no extra for a Towbar

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2007 Santa Fe cdx+


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Personrose+max
01/9/2014 at 11:15am
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I'm another one who didn't know a tow bar was a modification. Just rang my insurance company and they've added it on with no extra premium or admin charge.   They just tried to sell me breakdown cover but I've already got that with C/C Mayday.
Thanks billyboggins for making me aware of it.

-------------
Rose


Personbillyboggins
05/9/2014 at 8:58pm
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my pleasure


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billyboggins


Persontrog100
06/9/2014 at 11:13am
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so it seems any change since the vehicle left the factory is what the insurance company means by "modification"..

its also been suggested that a change you dont know about cant be held against you.. personally i would not be too sure about this one but you never know..

but i was asked the modification question.. when given the definition i answered i am sure the vehicle being twenty years old cant be exactly the same as when it left the factory..

modified in any way.. new bulbs new seat covers new tyres new spot lights new anything.. all would come under the modification ruling if its as simple as any change since it left the factory..

personally i dont think ignorance of what isnt exactly the same as when it left the factory can be relied upon as an "excuse" in the event of any legal dispute..

ignorance of what has been changed and what hasnt been changed is a "fact" for the owners of older vehicles..

i think its a trick question and one that works entirely to the advantage of the insurance company..

trog



Post last edited on 06/09/2014 11:22:54


Personmikegalagher
06/9/2014 at 12:04pm
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I don't know how many times this needs saying.

1. Replacement of consumables isn't what they are looking for.

2. If you don't know about a modification, you can't disclose it.

3. If an insurer decided to make an issue about a modification you couldn't disclose because you weren't aware of it, they wouldn't get far with the FOS.


But do carry talking about tricks and rip-offs.

Much better than advice from professionally qualified people.



-------------
Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017


PersonOliverDay
06/9/2014 at 12:38pm
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"Has the car been modified?"
"Not that I'm aware..."



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Ollie

2016
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Persontrog100
06/9/2014 at 1:36pm
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"Replacement of consumables isn't what they are looking for."

they did not make that clear to me when i ask for clarification.. all i got was anything that isnt the same as when it left the factory.. i know what modification used to mean.. it seems the insurance companies now dont..

"Much better than advice from professionally qualified people."

he he he.. the snag is those so called professional people are not very professional..

i own four vehicles.. i get plenty of chance to talk about vehicle "insurance".. when you get quotes varying by as much as a factor of five (500%) for the same thing depending which company you ask its obvious something is well wrong with motor insurance industry..

none of them have any valid answer for this.. they just say that is what the underwriters quote.. the more honest ones admit there is a problem.. the same applies to what a modification is.. when asked to define in any other way than "the same as when it left the factory" they are totally lost..

you mikegalagher might call them professional i think they are a shambles who will fob their customers off with any excuse they can dream up just to make the sale and get rid of them..

but we can all believe what its suits us to believe.. most of us do.. he he..

trog


ps.. many years ago banks used to be trustworthy and so did insurance companies.. its a mistake to think things are still this way.. they are not.. money making machines that will take you eyes out if you let them.. he he..

has anyone thought to ask if the fitting of extended towing mirrors is a "modification".. of course if ignorance is a cover all excuse none of this matters but if it isnt it all matters and goes way beyond tow brackets.. :)


   





Post last edited on 06/09/2014 13:48:09



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