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Quote: Originally posted by Rune Caster on 06/10/2010

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Quote: Originally posted by Andy R on 06/10/2010I towed a twin axle van (with stabiliser and ATC fitted) with a mid-sized 4x4 at around 95% of kerbweight for a bit.

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I wasn't happy with its stability and changed the car so now tow at under 80%, and it's made a world of difference.

It's really simple - if you take 2 identically loaded caravans - one is towed at 95%, the other at 70%, the one being towed at 70% is going to be more stable.   

When we bought our first caravan, we first looked at the towing capabilities of our car, then only looked at caravans which were light enough to tow at 85% or below.

   

   

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I'm sorry but whether a tow vehicle is at 85% or 105%, providing the caravan is loaded correctly and the nose weight is as close to 100kgs as the tow car allows then the stability of the caravan can not be affected.

If as you say the stability was affected then you have/are not loading your caravan safely

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Quote: Originally posted by neil and lena on 06/10/2010

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Quote: Originally posted by Rune Caster on 06/10/2010

Quote: Originally posted by Andy R on 06/10/2010I towed a twin axle van (with stabiliser and ATC fitted) with a mid-sized 4x4 at around 95% of kerbweight for a bit.

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I wasn't happy with its stability and changed the car so now tow at under 80%, and it's made a world of difference.

It's really simple - if you take 2 identically loaded caravans - one is towed at 95%, the other at 70%, the one being towed at 70% is going to be more stable.   

When we bought our first caravan, we first looked at the towing capabilities of our car, then only looked at caravans which were light enough to tow at 85% or below.

   

   

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I'm sorry but whether a tow vehicle is at 85% or 105%, providing the caravan is loaded correctly and the nose weight is as close to 100kgs as the tow car allows then the stability of the caravan can not be affected.

If as you say the stability was affected then you have/are not loading your caravan safely

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Yes but when the driver of the car towing a van close to or at 100% towing match loses control his chances of regaining control are much less than if the outfit is at 85% or less .
And even the most well balanced outfit can become unstable in the wrong conditions

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Quote: Originally posted by JTQU on 06/10/2010

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The weight ratio is only of real advantage if the unit goes unstable and takes no account of critical importance of the weight distribution on the vehicle itself.
So its best to ensure it does not become unstable and come out of the time warp and embrace the likes of ATC and other active trailer and vehicle stability control systems.
Far more important than weight in snaking instability is a high lateral stiffness car rear suspension. The inherent stiffness of a BMW 3 rear suspension with its sporting pedigree is much better that say a LR Discovery 2 with its high profile compliant off roading tyres and long articulation suspension. Indeed its only the LR Discovery 2's mass that saves it from being a dreadful tow vehicle, its certainly not its lateral stiffness a weakness it shares with most off road 4 x 4s.

The 85% guide figure is only there to protect the less informed from the inadequate towing abilities of some cars and pre-dates the technical advances available today. Its well time it is revisited to take account of vehicle developments

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hello everyone again,,sorry for late reply (long day at work)

Firstly id like to thank everyone very much for all the comments,,im finding this very very useful and will take in every advice given to us.

The change of van is out of the question as i have my heart set on the van and it is perfect for the family...so the only change would be the car (which isnt a great problem as my husband is in the motor trade)..my husband has been looking at the shogun warrior sport as a possible change so if it is  really so unsafe we will be def doing this at the beg of next season (van will be sited the remaining weeks of this season so dealer can deliver,,then it gets locked up and plenty time to make the change over)

so any way back to the bmw..ours is actually the 2001 model 330 diesel msport (stiffer supension than normal 330d)..the weights i got wr from a bmw site for the car..so as for correct weights on the car ,im only going by what one site posted so not 100%

as for the caravan..the dealer pointed to a badge on the caravan and said the weight is on the side,,hence the 1281 (or 1280..something)..when selling us the van he said it was a perfect match (but i know he prob would say a fiesta was a perfect match if it meant a sale..lol..what dealer wouldnt)

I went on a site what tow car,,and that said good match

obviously i would never tow if it is that unsafe as we have 2 young children,,,and i will listen seriously to all of your advice (very much appreciated by all may i add)

please advise now i have said the exact model if it is def unsafe,,,and thats it,,bye bye bmw...hello large hard to park shogun  (only for me my husband could park an artic lorry)

as for inexperienced my hubby has towed every wk end since june,,,poor bugger

neil and lena....thanks for the advice of the exact weight of 620/6....makes total sense....i can see the dealer pointed out the badge...so thats all we wr thinking of,,,that weight..sorry to sound so dumb,but we are new to touring as only began this season and way back in june we knew zilch about anything to do with caravaning,,so we are learning all the time.

It all makes total sense to us now,,when we have to think of loaded weight and not just empty weight.

when we first went to look at the van my husband was always of the impression that to have a twin axel we had to have a 4x4 anyway..it was the dealer who said it was ok,,that lead us to the tow car check,,that said ok,,,but to be totally sure we thought we would ask the experts,,you lot,who have had a lot of experience

someone stated sorry for opening a can of worms...well thats fine by us,,we havent found any of anybodys comments to be nasty or irelevant,,quite the opposite,,very good advice indeed...safety is very important to us as we travel with young children (and also safety of others on road)...so we will def be listening to all your comments

my husband has towed every wk end since june (until 3 wks ago) when we decided to pay for a site until end of season and in that time he had a landrover in stock and he saw a massive diffence in the tow on our 470/4 (much easier)...so it stands to reason a 4x4 is a much better match for the 620/6 if it felt better on the small van

everyone is talking about weights,,and tow %..which we are gradually learning all about...again something we knew zilch about in june im ashamed to say...

It would make for a much safer world if it was made compulsary one knew all of it before towing,,,instead of everyone just thing "off we go"..its only as we have bought a larger van.it has worried us enough to ask in the forum...and im soooo glad we did!

otherwise....hmmm...accident just waiting to happen it we dont get it right!

so...a great big thankyou!!!!!!

please keep the advice coming in..as ive now said what exact yr and model of bmw...is it still unsafe?? like i said before..if so..we will change for next season...(at least then ill park the car in the xmas rush without a panick on..lol...and dont say it..i know!! women drivers...!!! lol ..(dont worry..i dont tow)

when you say loaded correctly..what exactly is the correct way to load...(sorry to sound so ruddy thick)

At the min in the caravan,,gas bottle,tv,microwave,kettle,,other general kitchen stuff (plates etc)few towels,few clothes,bedding and sleeping bags,couple of windbreakers,waste and water containers,and an awning and maybes a couple of bags of shopping.

in the car 2 adults 2 kids 2 dogs and the boot is usually rammed to bursting that the hoover is even squshed inbetwen my kids (poor mites,,lol...)

just to give you a general idea of what we carry in van/car....so...as for loading correctly..is that ok?..what rule of thumb should we follow to load

thanks

Hi samp5679

I have used a 2003 BMW 325i auto convertible 1675kg to tow a Bailey Senator Vermont, 1333kg mtplm, probable weight  in practice being more like just over 1200kg, for the last eighteen months with no problems, look on your reg. cert. V5C, your vehicles weight including the driver will be there .

Hopefully I wiil be picking up a new Coachman 560/4 next week, mro 1377kg. Plus mover and a few bits in the van (which I have already weighed) I expect the van to weigh under 1500kg this will give me 89% without taking into account my wife and probably the awning etc in the car as well.

Even at the van's mtplm of 1560kg.the ratio will be 93%. It will have the al-ko hitch and atc and shock absorbers. 

I feel very confident with the car as it is the sport model with the stiffened suspension and will give the outfit a real road test as we will be away in the van for a few days after picking the new van up. BUT if I have any doubts after this initial outing I will be changing the car for something heavier.

Please keep us posted.

can anyone post some useful links to read on how to load correct...and also some links on towing %

thanks...off to bed now as i have a caravan sized headache thro stressing over the safety issue...back on tmora nite to see your advice again

thanks again guys!!

I wouldn't say the outfit is dangerous per say. It leaved very little margin for error. An inexperienced tower is likely to make more errors than an "old hand"

It is only going to become dangerous when the danger comes along. If you get a brown pants moment, it is more likely to end in a trip to hospital than it would be if you have a brown pants moment with a heavier car. You are only likely to have a brown pants moment if you get something else wrong, but these can be out of your control. A speeding van passing you, having to swerve to avoid something in the road etc...

Loading correctly is not difficult.  Essentially, you are looking for the correct noseweight but, for example, if it is too heavy, you can't reduce it by packing stuff at the back of the caravan.  This leads to what is known as pendulum effect, and will allow the caravan to sway excessively, possibly leading to snaking.

The car and the caravan each have their own maximum noseweight, and you need to aim for the lighter of the two.  Just keep it a few Kg under, to be on the safe side.

Heavy items should be on the floor, as near to the axle as possible, Nothing heavy in high cupboards. Don't just pack everything in the car boot, either.  That also has an axle weight limit, and in any event, you can end up with the car's nose in the air and the jockey wheel banging on the ground.

Make sure the caravan sits level when you have finished.  Slightly nose down is acceptable, but not as good as level.  Don't forget the tyre pressures.

In short, when the caravan is on site, it is a house.  When it's on the road, it's a trailer.  You can't just put everything away like you would at home.  Treat it as a trailer, and you'll be safer.

Good decision to change the car.  My own preference would be for a 4 x 4 but I'm sure you'll hear advice to the contrary.  I had my first caravan 46 years ago, and over that time, I've found there really is no substitute for a car to caravan weight advantage.  I have a Jeep, but had Land Rovers for many years.  There's a lot of choice out there now.

Jim