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Subject Topic: Think he forgot he was towing his `van!!
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11/4/2015 at 2:30pm
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What's the distance from the keep left sign to the point where the van crashed into the lorry?

Its hard to judge from pictures and video, because as you show the different camera views give different dimensions.



11/4/2015 at 3:10pm
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I've worked it out a couple of ways, and it comes out to 90-100 feet from the bollard furthest away to where I believe the collision started.

I am a bit confused though - as you can see from the original, there was a Land Rover going in the opposite direction, passing the bollards at around 15 seconds, and the collision 'started' only 2 seconds later. Was that time enough for the Land Rover to pass and the caravan to go round the wrong side of the bollards?? It seems to me from the original footage that the car/caravan is coming in at quite an angle ie from the opposite side of the road.

My dashcam footage shows it took me 2.7 seconds from the far bollard to the collision point, and I was doing around the same speed as the truck (24mph).

Del


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11/4/2015 at 3:33pm
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OK - here's my footage of that stretch of road. Can't seem to paste the link directly - for some reason it won't work.

https://vimeo.com/124692286

Del


11/4/2015 at 4:59pm
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I reckon it's about 345ft from the lights to the keep left bollard (he hit).

And in the 15sec the truck is accelerating, a car traveling at 30mph would have been about 315 ft back from the lights for them both to 'arrive" at the same spot where the collision occurred.

Post last edited on 11/04/2015 17:40:20

Post last edited on 11/04/2015 19:17:29

Post last edited on 11/04/2015 19:18:28


11/4/2015 at 7:04pm
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Some people have estimated the car was travelling at 50mph Newspaper report

Looks like the distance covered by the lorry is 279 feet

Distance covered


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11/4/2015 at 7:13pm
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Well if he was only doing 30 mph he would have been so far behind the truck when the lights changed he would have been a speck in the mirror.


12/4/2015 at 8:20am
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So does anyone still think the car driver is the innocent party?


12/4/2015 at 9:13am
 Location: Sheffield
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The car driver was deemed at fault by the police too.



12/4/2015 at 9:38am
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"So does anyone still think the car driver is the innocent party?"

i dont think anyone has thought that.. the only thing in question was just how innocent was the lorry driver..

we do seem to live in a blame culture.. some kind of simple 100% blame needs to be aimed at someone..

i spent twenty years driving a taxi for a living.. twenty accident free years partly because i always allowed for other drivers to make mistakes..

mostly other peoples mistakes can be avoided.. mostly they can be anticipated.. mostly for an accident to happen it takes more than one single individual to make a mistake..

the ability to anticipate what other drivers may do is the difference between a professional driver and an amateur..

when the professional driver fails to anticipate what he should anticipate in my book they are at fault..

if they anticipate and think f-ck it they are even more at fault..

in this case i did have doubts about the total innocences of the lorry driver.. i did not have the slightest doubt regarding the guilt of the car driver..

my world is made up of shades of grey instead of simple black and white.. :)   

trog



12/4/2015 at 10:11am
 Location: North Essex
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Quote: Originally posted by Motobiman on 12/4/2015
So does anyone still think the car driver is the innocent party?


Where did anybody think the car driver was the innocent party? You seem zeroed in on any suggestion of culpability by truck driver negates guilt of car driver. Fact is truck driver will have been aware of caravanner pushing his luck & could have backed off & avoided accident, this sort of 'race' is inevitable with this sort of road layout.

Read the thread on trucknet carefully & you will see that plenty of posters who actually drive trucks for living say that the truck driver could have avoided the accident(& avoided all the aggro & delay he caused himself)but they understand why he did not & that caravanners generally are w*****s.

Now answer me this question. At any traffic lights 'grand prix' do you think its ok for inside lane driver to go for it flat out through the gears whatever & if the outside driver can't beat him & they end up colliding then its 100% the outside lane driver's fault? Tbf, plenty of drivers do take this view.


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12/4/2015 at 10:41am
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You do love hypothetical situations.

In this case the car driver was mostly to blame, no question and it was not a traffic light GP because the car must have been a long way back form the lights when the truck moved off.

In your hypothetical case both are guilty of racing on the highway so could face the same charge.

If there was a collision the insurers might take a different view.

I will concede both drivers are required to avoid a collision but in this case I would apportion blame 95/05 in favour of the trucker.

Now can we move on?


12/4/2015 at 11:02am
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"In this case the car driver was mostly to blame, no question and it was not a traffic light GP because the car must have been a long way back form the lights when the truck moved off."

yep the word is mostly.. which opens up the possibly that maybe billy is right.. the truck driver is partly to blames because he didnt do the right thing and avoid the accident..

there are two reason for this.. simple lack of care or simple bloody mindedness.. maybe a bit of both..

i like the comment about them thinking caravanners are w-nkers.. i must admit to thinking the same about them at times.. more so when i am being a caravanner.. he he

one thing i did learn on my last long distance trip.. do as the truck driver does.. sit in the outside lane on a dual carriage way for as long as it takes.. never ever think they will let you in because they wont.. he he

i hate the bloody things.. they are ether sat ten feet from your rear end.. sat two feet from your drivers window or going just that bit two fast (uphill) for you to safely overtake.. :)

trucks and caravans dont seem to mix that well.. he he

trog



Post last edited on 12/04/2015 11:15:40


12/4/2015 at 2:22pm
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Quote: Originally posted by trog100 on 12/4/2015
going just that bit two fast (uphill) for you to safely overtake.. :)

trog



Post last edited on 12/04/2015 11:15:40



I don`t understand that statement. Either the truck is making reasonable progress (so why would you need to overtake?), or going so slowly that anyone with a decently matched outfit would be able to get past. Or is it just a pathological dislike of of trucks and an unnatural macho need to get in front of them (even if you can`t?)


12/4/2015 at 3:49pm
 Location: Inverness
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Well, well, well!
Never thought there would be 6 pages of replies to the vid I posted, but there you go.
In my opinion, 95/5 in favour of the trucker (but that is variable, depending how much he saw in his mirrors, and we can only take his word for it!)
No point in surmising what he did/didn't see. All we've got is the video. Caravanner is still a knob!
The type of junction has a lot to answer for too, just encourages people to misjudge it and "go for it".
Anyway, interesting to hear all the views.
BTW, I have an LGV licence as well as others !

-------------
I came into this world with nothing and I've still got most of it left.


12/4/2015 at 4:16pm
 Location: Derbyshire
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Some people will argue black is white.....and not for the first time.

-------------
Doing as little as possible for as much as possible...


12/4/2015 at 4:17pm
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Yeah - similar volume and range of opinion on several other sites.

I've plotted the GPS co-ordinates from the original footage onto Bing maps (Google Earth Maps are 6 years old!!). Point 1 is the start point by the traffic lights, 2 is where the truck finished up, and 3 (blue circle on map) is as near as I can tell where the car first appears in front of the truck. The black X is where I believe the car/caravan ended up - you can actually see the caravan in the original footage crossing the second cycle-track markings on the road.

So I guess my original view that the car went round the wrong side of the bollards was not correct. Seeing the road for real, I did not think that the car could have travelled from the bollards to where it ended up, but if it was doing more than 30mph, it wouldn't take long. Measuring the distance according to the scale on the map shows about 190feet, and a car doing 30mph will travel this in around 4 secs. This is the same as the time stamp on the footage. All a bit rough, but I think gives a reasonably accurate picture.

What it can't show, of course, is how far the car was in front of the truck. Looking at the truck drivers facebook page, there is other footage from his 'dashcam', and the FOV is the same as here, so it has not been zoomed in or otherwise doctored.




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