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see www.calor.co.uk  we only use the red bottle now after the blue refused to gas one morning in keswick.no breakfast that morning.

http://www.calor.co.uk/leisure/index.htm

http://www.calor.co.uk/regulators/propane-3.9-47kg.htm

Quote: Originally posted by dave8858 on 12/10/2009

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Its a good time to change to the lightweight calor propane. It weighs half as much burns much hotter and doesn't freeze. Keeps the noseweight down 2 as you can carry 2 cylinders for the same weight as one of the old blue ones.

D

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Its not the freezing point you need to worry about. Its the boiling point, ie the temperature the liquid in the cylinder turns to gas. Propane is -42 degrees C, Butane is -0.5 degrees C. The gas in the cylnder is normally under pressure to form a liquid. However, as the pressure is reduced by the liquid changing to gas, a cooling effect happens. This is how a refrigerator works. This cooling effect reduces the temperature of the remaining liquid in the cylinder and as it gets closer to -0.5 degrees, it has the effect of reducing the pressure in the cylinder. Once -0.5 degrees is reached, the Butane will be a liquid, and hence you will be able to hear it sloshing round in the cylinder, but there will be no gaseous Butane to cook the bacon and eggs.

Normally it is warm enough for the outside air to "compensate" for this cooling effect, but as the temperature drops, there is less heat transfer into the cylinder.

Incidentally, the weight of gas in both types of cylinder is much the same, it is the new lightweight Propane cylinders which weigh less.

The "extra energy" in Butane is not all that much more, only about 12%.

Butane systems can freeze and stop flowing at as high as 5 or 6 degrees C.  This is due to the liquid evapourating to become a gas and drawing heat from its surroundings.  This is the same principle that makes a refrigerator work.  If you touch the couplings or regulator you will see how cold they get when in use.

On your van the regulator should be fixed to the bulkhead.  To change to propane all that is needed is to change the "pigtail" between the bottle and the regulator.  On earlier models, a new regulator that fits directly on the bottle is needed (not particularly expensive).

Remember that the connection to the propane gas bottle in both cases is by a left hand thread.

All appliances in the van should work equally well on propane or butane.  The calorific value of butane is higher but for the amounts the average caravanner uses this should be negligible.

Regards

Please don't play with your gas make sure its ok if unsure pleas ask someone who can see it and has the knowledge, it makes one hell of a bang if you get it wrong.

It used to be different regulators and left hand thread for one and right hand for the other so avoiding confusion.

Unless the rule has changed. I hope not.

Quote: Originally posted by arc systems on 12/10/2009

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Misconception about propane burning hotter though,

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It used to be different regulators and left hand thread for one and right hand for the other so avoiding confusion.

Unless the rule has changed. I hope not.

the blue is a clip on now.

The battery ran out on my laptop last night at about 10pm so I have only just read the rest of the answers thanks very much for your answers so far. I rang derby caravans today and spoke to helpful steve in service. The tail he sold me did not have a regulator attached simply because I am lucky enough to have the new type bulkhead regulator in the locker. This is fixed at 30millibars and will be suitable for both types of gas. I just need to swap the tails over. The tail I have on at present has a clip on valve which is factory sealed and safe. I will be swapping over to propane when I swap the cylinder and change the tail over too. However this is reliant on me nipping every up tight enough but not too tight as it doesnt have any clip on valves. This I dont think is a safe. What are your thoughts on this???

The connections are brass - it's a soft metal (definitely a LOT softer than your steel spanners!), so be careful not to overtighten and damage the connectors (my dad is a mechanic and has a saying for such occasions - 'tight's tight and too tight's b*ggered!!).

Changing the pigtail is easy (and safe) - turn off the gas at the bottle (obviously!!) and the stop-tap in the gas-bottle box, as you would when changing the bottle. Disconnect the pigtail from the butane and unscrew the pigtail from the regulator (remember - left-handed thread).  Screw on the propane pigtail so it's finger tight, then carefully nip it up with a spanner - just until it's nicely tight, not that 'stand-on-the-strong-bar' tight you might use for the wheel nuts on your car!!.  Connect up the propane bottle, and put a little washing-up liquid in water around the joints.  Turn the gas on at the cylinder and check for bubbles.  Assuming you have none, turn the stop-tap on and check again.  No bubbles?  - job's done.  Bubbles? - tighten it a little more (but only until there's no bubbles).  Rinse the soapy water off when you've done as it's not good for the rubber.

Once you've swapped the pig-tail, there is no reason why you need to change back again - we always use propane, whatever the weather - saves having to change pig-tails, having two lots of gas bottles, and removes the risk of it not gassing on those unexpected nippy mornings!

Another option if you want a clip on regulator is to use BPlite

Propane Gas, a 28mm clip on regulator. and fiberglass bottles so lighter and safer ( according to the London Fire brgade) in the event of a fire they do not explode!