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Don't know which way to turn or what to do next.To cut a very long story as short as I can,here goes.....

May 2007-bought a new Sprite Quattro

June 09-took van in for its 2nd service.Reported to workshop manager that there was 'bubbling' behing the toilet in the bathroom.Damp test revealed over 30% damp in end bathroom,also rusty cooker and fridge.Upon inspection,ourselves and the workshop manager found a very small crack on the rear panel.Its in a place where there is a recess,nothing could of hit it.Workshop manager says it looks like a stress crack,he applies some mastic and advises us to use the van for the summer,then return it to him for warranty work.

November 18th 09-van returned to dealer for said warranty work,we had pre-booked the van in for this.Advised it may take a couple of weeks,to which I reply thats fine,we aren't using the van this side of Christmas (ie 2009).He advises us he's requesting that the van go back to Swift for inspection and repair.

Fast forward to last week

12th January 2010-having heard absolutely from the dealer,I phoned them.It takes 6 hours for workshop manager to return call.He informs me he has heard nothing back from Swift.

I phone Swift-they advise me that they received a warranty claim from the dealer on the 19th November 2009,they replied to this saying that the van didn't need to go back to them as the dealer has the facilities to do the work,and they were awaiting a quote from the dealer so they can give the go ahead.

I then re-phone the dealer,unable to get through to workshop manager as he wasn't answering his phone,receptionist informs me the dealers manager is away until the 28th January therefore nothing will be done until after this date!(workshop manager is there however).

I phone Swift again,and explain the situation.She says as it was the workshop manager who put in the claim,he can send the quote to them.She asks if I would like her to phone the dealer-I say yes.

19th January 2010-I contact Swift as they haven't phoned me back regarding call to dealer-she explains that she's been trying desperately to contact the workshop manager,but he isn't returning her calls-she will keep trying.

We have been waiting since Friday for the workshop manager to return our calls.Every time we phone,he isn't answering the phone when the receptionist tries to put us through.We have never been aggressive,threatening or rude to any of them (despite what we'd like to say lol).

Just don't know what to do next.Do we just sit here and wait for them to get around to doing something?Or keep phoning to be told he isn't answering his phone?Swift are being very nice and helpful,unlike our dealer.But as far as I'm aware it isn't Swifts responsibility is it?Another issue is the van is on HP with Black Horse-should we of informed them of all this?Sorry this wasn't as short as I'd anticipated,thankyou for reading it all.

Any help/advice/guidance would be very much appreciated,feel like we're banging our heads against a brick wall lol,

Jenny

 methinks this is a sale of goods act issue.

 dealer is at fault here not swift!!,dragging their heals,by all means inform black horse and state to them that you are not happy with the situation and maybe they can put pressure on dealer.

 send a letter to the dealer by recorded delivery stating that you wanr the problem sorting out as per aggreement in your original bill of sale aggreement.

 give them 14 days,or you will take the matter further,ie:- possible legal action.

 hope you can get satisfaction.

if the dealer isnt too far away i would go down in person and speak face to face

dont understand their problem, warranty work is easy money for the dealer as they get paid for it sharpish

would also get in touch with cab as caravan isnt fit for purpose so sale of goods act will cover you. wouldnt bother with giving them 14 days or anything they have had plenty of time. go legal and hang 'em from the rafters by their pubic hair

As you have only just posted this I would suggest you hang on for an hour or two as I am sure Ash from Swift will be in contact with you.

Swift monitor this forum as they do others.

Sounds like another rubbish dealer. (Why don't you name them?)

Here is the site consumer direct for not fit for purpose

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

Name the muppet dealer too

Niall

Quote: Originally posted by Jerry+Tina on 20/1/2010

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Watching with interest!

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A Number of issues arise here

1. The Van was purchased in 2007 and the problem arose in 2009 so it is unlikely that the original poster can claim that the van is not fit for purpose. The "fit for purpose" issue is a condition implied into a contract for the sale of goods by statute. If something is not fit for purpose then you have claim for breach of contract.  The original poster is telling us that when he purchased the van it was fit for purpose but that some problem arose 2 years later. The posters difficulty is that, having travelled around in the van for two years can he/she, with certainty, show that the fault originated at the point of contract (when purchased) or within a reasonably short period after the date of purchase?  

2. When the Van was purchased the seller would have included some additional terms into the contract for sale via the usual seller warranty. Those terms will have been qualified such that if you damage your van the seller is not liable for water ingress. From the original post it is not clear whether there has been any damage or not. All we have is a view that "nothing could hit it". Are you sure? Could it not be a stress fracture caused by going over a pot hole at 90 miles per hour? Silly analagy I know, but that is simply used to explain how folks can damage their Van and if that arised then it may not be possible to claim on the warranty for breach of contract. 

3. The Van was purchased via a Hire Purchase agreement. Often fatal to any breach of contract claim as many folks do not understand how they work. The dealer will sell the van to the Hire Purchase Company (probably without any warranties as the Hire Purchase company does not want any) and the Hire Purchase company will then sell the van to the poster with payment being spread over a number of years. So the poster needs to look at the terms and conditions of the Hire Purchase agreement. I can guarantee that the Hire Purchase Company will have excluded all warranties etc relating to the van such as water ingress. The poster can only claim, in contract, against the Hire Purchase company as his/her contract will be with them and not the dealership. You are not in a very good position, contractually, if something goes wrong with the item you buy if you purchase via HP arrangements. The best way is to arrange a loan, without the dealer being involved, and then use that loan to buy the Van. That way you keep your contract for sale with the dealer and the dealer does not need to know where you get the money from. So, buying under an HP arrangement means you are on a sticky wicket I am afraid.

4. The real issue. At this stage the problem is not about "fit for purpose"  or "breach of contract for sale" or HP. Its about delivering a service. Fixing the Van. When you get problems like this you need to differentiate between issues so as not to muddy the waters so much that you pursue someone for the wrong reason as you cannot, shall we say, see the wood for the trees. If you take issue with a contracting party for the wrong reason they have a defence straight away. Under the terms of the Supply of Goods and Services Act the service provider is under an obligation to use reasonable skill and care in delivering that service. You have a contract with the dealer to deliver a service, namely to repair the van. From what has been said by the poster there is no skill and care being provided and thus a breach of contract has arisen. That is the contract you pursue and not the "contract" to acquire the van in 2007 

Thus, visit the company and ask to see whoever is in charge and explain that you delivered the van for repair and that the company has failed to use its reasonable skill and care in arranging for the repair. If they do not deal with it immediately then you are minded to report the company to the Office of Fair Trading and the Trading Standards department of the Local Authority. Now they can either get on with the job or run up a bill of costs dealing with those two organisations and possibly legal costs in litigation by either of those two bodies. Whether those two bodies will take the issue on is another matter and a bridge to cross later. They can take the matter on on your behalf.

Once the company get on with it they will come back to the original poster and explain what needs to be done when and how much and who pays. At that stage the poster is probably into the difficulties of contract law referred to earlier. The dealer may very well say, we can get it fixed but as our contract for sale was with the HP company then you will have to pay. The poster can then look at his/her contract with the HP company to see if there are any exclusion clauses or whether that company will pay or doies it have the benefit of any warranties etc that it can enforce against the dealer. That is a whole new set of issues.

Before I retired I used to be a lawyer dealing in contract matters

This may not be the answer you were after but I am  afraid that this is a complex area of law, made worse by the HP arrangement. However, I hope it helps.

Phil

I too am surprised at that advice-slightly different to what consumer direct have informed me but that was way to much to list here.Basically,we were sold the van with a 6 year warranty against water ingress.The van now has water ingress through no fault of mis-use or wear and tear (although I'm sure as you say this would have to be proven,a course we would be willing if necessary to take ie get an independent assesment of it).And for the record we don't tow,or even drive without the van on,at 90mph!lol

As Surfer said,I have now had contact from Swift,whom I have to add,are very helpful.The van will be going back to them for repair very shortly,I am so happy and relieved,albeit not with our dealer.

It seems in this day and age,you have to chase around for anything to get done at basic level.In fact I have been feeling guilty for 'bothering' the dealer,even though,as I said,I've been polite,never lost my rag,never threatened etc and haven't bombarded them with phone calls,even though its our van,its not in usable condition,they have not carried out the work agreed in the specified time,and we have had very little communication from them.I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever gone through anything like this,and certainly won't be the last,unfortunately.I feel some dealers,in fact retailers in general,expect us to sit back and wait,knowing we are at their mercy,leaving us feeling badly treated.

I'd rather not name the dealer on here,we will still have to deal with them in the future for servicing etc.And there is always the chance we were just 'unfortunate' for it to happen to us,I'm sure they have many happy customers out there,somewhere.

Thankyou all for your replies and advice,it is greatly appreciated,

Jenny

Hi Jenny

I doubt that you are the first to get poor service from your dealer. I would certainly name them and go somewhere else for my service in future.

Do you honestly feel you can trust them again?

Quote: Originally posted by Surfer01 on 21/1/2010

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Phil. if you were a lawyer I am rather surprised at some your advice. Anyway the manufacturer has contacted the OP and is in the process of resolving the issues so no need for a deabte any more.

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I know folks are often are if they are lay people because the man in the street sees the legal position differently to the way it often actually is. Nice to see that Swift have the matter in control. Shame it took so long. Don't you often find that when you try to get things done under "warranty", dealers (in whatever field) refer you to the manufacturer and then the manufacturer sends you back to the dealer. Its a little game with the consumer as the shuttlecock in the middle. Just remember folks your contract (HP aside) is with the dealer - they should sort things out...even if it means the dealer getting the manufacturer to do it. Life should be that simple

Phil 

Quote: Originally posted by Surfer01 on 21/1/2010

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Quote: Originally posted by Jerry+Tina on 20/1/2010

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Watching with interest!

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Didn' you lot also have a problem awhile back?

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Indeed I did Surfer, hence my interest.

Jendelwin Please remember that you do not have to have your van serviced at the dealers you bought it from, only warranty work has to be done by that dealer. You are perfectly free to have your van serviced  elsewhere so long as that person is qualified to do so. A quick check with Swift can confirm whether the company you choose is acceptable.

I didn't realise the issue of not actually owning a van under an HP agreement affected the warranty, but on thinking about it, it does seem very logical..

Another disadvantage is that, if you don't keep up the payments, they can take the whole van back.

Also, if you need to sell the van, it's very difficult to do so privately, as there is outstanding finance on an HPI check. It means you can only really sell through a dealer unless you take up another short term loan  to pay off the HP.

There's not much in favour of HP is there.

Quote: Originally posted by navver on 21/1/2010

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I didn't realise the issue of not actually owning a van under an HP agreement affected the warranty, but on thinking about it, it does seem very logical..

Another disadvantage is that, if you don't keep up the payments, they can take the whole van back.

Also, if you need to sell the van, it's very difficult to do so privately, as there is outstanding finance on an HPI check. It means you can only really sell through a dealer unless you take up another short term loan  to pay off the HP.

There's not much in favour of HP is there.

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If you have to have an HP arrangement to buy a Van then what you need to do, to protect your contractual position, is to ask the dealer to enter into  a separate contract with you which sets out, in your favour,  all of the warranties they normally give on a sale under. The dealer giving warranties to your HP company is of no use to the HP company as it has no real interest in the caravan. You have no contract with the dealer under a standard HP agreement so create one.

Very few folks appreciate that.

A respectable dealer will not be concerned with these niceties and will just sort things out....but when they don't then the problems arise.

Phil