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Subject Topic: Charging in the boot
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15/2/2010 at 4:23pm
 Location: Atherton Manchester
 Outfit: Ford Mondeo TDCI & 5M Bell Tent
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Hi, I'm thinking about putting some sort of wiring in the boot of my car so that I can charge my leisure battery as I drive when on a long rally. Problem is am not really sure how to go about it. Can I simply put a cigarette fitting that I can just plug in with 2 clips that go on to the battery or does there have to be some sort of regulator? Also as there is no 12V socket in the boot can I use scotchlocks and wire something direct to the car wiring? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks

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Matt


15/2/2010 at 4:27pm
 Location: Lancashire
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security of the battery is the main concern,you do not want that thing flying forward in a bump.a split relay charger can be bought to do it correctly. think i still have the wiring diagram somewhere.

Post last edited on 15/02/2010 16:41:38

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15/2/2010 at 6:51pm
 Location: Humberside
 Outfit:  Swift Elegance 565
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I would take a feed from my alternator so that it is only "live" when the engine is running, not sure if a battery in the boot is a good idea though. Someone with more knowledge on this subject will be along soon to advise. 



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15/2/2010 at 7:09pm
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I see no problem with a battery in the boot provided it is mounted in a proprietory battery box. Rather than use crocodile clips, I would rather see proper battery terminals as crocodile clips can come off and cause a spark. I would also recommend some sort of vent from the battery box to the atmosphere in case of gassing. Should there be a spark and gassing present...well I am sure you can work out the consequences.

Assuming you have a 12S socket, then you could pick up the power from that. The other options are to pick up from a cigarette lighter socket if it switches off with the ignition off. If the cigarette lighter stays lived then a flat leisure battery connected to it could flatten the car battery while the engine is stopped. The other option is to pick up a live feed from the ignition switch or fit a split charging relay. If you pick up off the ignition switch then remember to fit a suitable fuse. Do not be tempted to pick up from an interior light or radio as the wiring will not be heavy enough and could pose a fire risk, but would almost certainly blow a fuse if the leisure battery is well down.


15/2/2010 at 8:27pm
 Location: West country
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As Legs down says plus also make sure the battery terminals are insulated. Don't want anything metal touching them.

If you pick up the supply from the 12S socket, it will only charge when the engine is running. You must unplug the battery in the boot when you are towing, otherwise it will discharge very quickly running the fridge. As long as you only use it whilst not towing you should be OK.



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15/2/2010 at 9:30pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
 Outfit: 1997 Bailey Ranger 470 4
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I am also doing something along the same lines but I will be using 2 leisure batteries, one in the van and one in the car boot.
I will then be connecting a Battery to Battery charger (the Furnvo UniCharger) and charging the van battery from the boot battery.

My van (see gallery) is very small and changing batteries over is not advisable, plus I need the caravan battery in at all times for security reasons.

The Boot Battery is wired directly to the Car Battery but through a Split Charge Relay which has a 20A fuse on either side of it.



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Lobey.


15/2/2010 at 11:21pm
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit:  Mitsubishi ASX4
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Notice how heavy things slide around in the boot when going round a corner unless secured? Heard the ad on the radio about not wearing a seatbelt, and at 30mph it could literally rip your heart out. (Incidentally this was what killed Diana.)

A battery in the boot is a very dangerous object in an accident, due to its weight. It all depends on how quickly you stop. On a gentle deceleration the seats will hold the battery, but in a sudden deceleration the force of the battery is such that it will break any boot restraints and break the seat backs and continue hurtling forward until it hits something else. Force = mass x acceleration. (or deceleration in this case). The g force in an accident can be as high as 14-16g. This can be survivable.

A car battery weighing 30kg in an accident could weigh as much as 450kg as it flies forward. The majority of boot retraint loops nor seat backs will not hold anything like this.

If the accident does not kill you, that heavy object in the boot might.



16/2/2010 at 9:40am
 Location: Blackburn Lancashire
 Outfit: Coachman Laser 650 and Discovery
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Your main problems are the security of the battery.  As has been said, this means a proper mounting or box, because the loads in an accident are huge.  You don't want your head smashed in and then covered in acid.

Secondly, you do need to make some provision for the escape of the gases produced while charging.

Jim



16/2/2010 at 11:21am
 Location: nottingham
 Outfit: Grand Canyon 8 Pennine Fiesta
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I have a BMW and my battery is under the rear seat behind the driver.It sits between 2 clamps which hold it to the floor.I have attached a pair of these clamps to my boot floor to hold a leisure battery. I assume that this is just as safe as the battery under the rear seat,am i right?

Post last edited on 16/02/2010 11:27:03

Post last edited on 16/02/2010 11:28:18

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16/2/2010 at 11:32am
 Location: Blackburn Lancashire
 Outfit: Coachman Laser 650 and Discovery
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There may be a small well that the ordinary battery sits in, which you don't have for your second battery.  What you need to ask yourself is whether the battery would stay where it is with the vehicle upside down.  If the answer is yes, then think about covering the top with something to prevent acid running out.  BUT don't forget to leave a route for gases to escape.

Jim



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16/2/2010 at 1:13pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
 Outfit: 1997 Bailey Ranger 470 4
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Now that every White Van Man in the country has been convinced that he should not carry anything heavier than a box of Polystyrene Chips, some Bean Bags and a Sack of Feathers, can we get back to the original question and explain to MattCharlie how he should wire up his extra battery.

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Lobey.


16/2/2010 at 1:27pm
 Location: Blackburn Lancashire
 Outfit: Coachman Laser 650 and Discovery
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There's no great issue.  A split charge relay is nice, but if you don't have one, just connect the batteries in parallel and they will "find their own level".  Imagine two taks of water, connected by a pipe.  Water will flow from the fuller tank to the emptier one until both are at the same level.  It is the same with electricity.

Of course, the batteries must be the same voltage, usually 12v.  Also, do be aware that if one of the batteries is not in good condition, old or nearly finished, it will drag the other battery down with it.

Best thing is to unplug the extra battery when you have finished your journey,so the two batteries are not connected all the time.  That way, you can be sure of starting your car again.

Scotchlocks aren't the greatest thing in the world. Use them if you have to, but have a look for some place you can make a proper connection first.

Jim



16/2/2010 at 4:04pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
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Thanks Jim, but two questions now.

1. Can you take the earth from the body of the car for the Boot Battery?

2. Can you have both batteries at a different Amp/Hour rating?



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Lobey.


16/2/2010 at 5:05pm
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1, yes not a problem.
2. again, no problem.

Problem.

If you wire in parallel to the existing car battery, then the wiring between the two batteries is unfused. If you fit an inline fuse then when you crank the engine over the voltage in the main battery drops. This will mean the leisure battery starts to discharge into the main battery and is used for cranking the engine. This is bad for two reasons. Firstly, a suitable fuse for protecting the wiring would blow. Secondly, if you decided not to fit a fuse, cranking the engine from a leisure battery is a bad thing to do. Therefore a suitable fuse and blocking diode should be fitted if the battery is to be wired this way, to stop the leisure battery being discharged during cranking. The other option is to use a split charging relay.


16/2/2010 at 5:17pm
 Location: Blackburn Lancashire
 Outfit: Coachman Laser 650 and Discovery
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Agree with points 1 and 2.  Also, a fuse is a good idea, but it needs to be a quite high rating to account for the high amperage the alternator puts out just after startup.

I would prefer not to crank from a leisure battery, but have done so on boats with 3or 4 batteries for many years with no problems.  It would need an electrical expert to tell you why, but I don't believe a 50amp fuse would blow in these circumstances, even though the starting current is a lot more than that.

I think it's because the battery in the car is acting as a kind of buffer, and most of the current comes from that, and the two batteries equalise afterwards.

Simple solution is to put a fuse in and try it.  If the fuse blows, either get a blocking diode or just don't plug the extra battery in (or take the clips off or take the fuse out) until the engine has started.

Going back a few years, when I was doing offroad recovery for the RAC rally, I had a trailer crane (still have it) with two large batteries in it to run two electric winches.  No fuses, no diodes, worked fine.

I don't believe it's that big a problem.

Jim



16/2/2010 at 5:24pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
 Outfit: 1997 Bailey Ranger 470 4
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I recently bought a Split Charge Relay for the purpose of putting a leisure battery in the car boot and that comes with two fuses, each to be put on either side of the Relay.

The Battery to Battery unicharger that I will use to recharge the van battery from the boot battery, was originally used to charge my TT Battery from the Car Battery.

So I have used this set up before, but it is the idea of having the extra battery in the car boot that is different this time.

It is my intension to fit a third socket to the towbar to run the power for this set-up between the car and the van.



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Lobey.



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