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He soon realised that I meant every word and would take him to court and gave in. It just annoys me that they keep trying it on in the hope that the customer doesn't know the law and will go away.

Nice when the full facts of any case are set out. So often folks give half a story. Excellent lesson - if the Warranty does not work (missed a service so breach of warranty) don't give up and have a go at the Dealer. Right approach.

Warranties give you two lines of attack. Problem with SOGA approach is that it is usally a battle, but worth the fight.

Hopefully, via message boards like this folk will get up to speed on their rights and can quote verse and chapter enough to dealers that eventually they will all just comply with the law without being asked to.

Phil

Quote: Originally posted by chrisneil on 20/2/2011

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Thank you all for your replies, They are great help. Service not due until May, so we shall look at a trip where we can combine with a service. Though will try Ubuntu's advice first, you never know, and it would make life easier.

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Phone Tabbert & ask if you can have your van serviced by a NCC authorized workshop

due to the distance between you and their dealerships

 I can hear the odd person saying it was my own fault etc. I agree entirely but the question you have to ask is "Were the Goods of merchantable quality" and the answer is "NO". If a manufacturer advertises a 6 year water ingress warranty then it is not unreasonable to expect the goods to last that long

Caravanning is a learning curve that goes on and on. Good example here of how warranties can become void and then you have to fall back on your SOGA rights. That generally involves an argument. Another part of the learning curve is to understand how the law works as well as what the law says.

Problem with SOGA is that if, say, you go back three years after you have bought your new van becasue of damp the Act says that you, the buyer, has to proove that the defect in the van was there on the day you bought it. The further away from the day you bought it you are the harder it is to proove. Dealers can legally do nothing until you proove your case. That's why there are arguments.

Phil

Excellent approach, well done.

Phil

I assume that you bought from a Dealer. You do not say. Under the Sale of Goods Act and the limitation Acts you have a limitation period of six years to make a claim for breach of contract.

Clearly you are still within the six years limitation period. As you have not serviced the van then you are in breach of your Bailey warranty so there is no claim under that warranty if the design fault was a breach of warranty.

Now, just because there is a design fault that does not mean that there has been a breach of contract. It also does not necessarily follow that there is any damage necessitating repairs to that design fault. We need to consider the facts. You would need to show that the fault created a caravan that is not of satisfactory quality, sufficiently durable or free from any defects.

You say that the roof is "spongy" which suggests some water ingress. Is that what has happened?

If so. then it is arguable that it is not sufficiently durable as it hasn't lasted six years without water gaining entry. It is also arguable that as they sell vans with guarantees that water will not gain entry within six years and if it does then they will fix it, that  that is some promise about the durability of the caravan.

It has a defect - you have an engineers report indicating the design fault.

Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. A reasonable person would not expect a design fault in something that the industry has been building for years.

The caravan, when sold, must match its description. 

The above law applies to the UK with some variations in Scotland.

To succeed in any case against your dealer you have to show that the defect existed on the day you contracted to buy the van. You can do this as you did not design the van. So, yes, from the very limited information you have supplied you have a claim against the dealer.

Now, has the dealer got any rights to mitigate its potential liability? Probably. You say that you have not had a service. I take it that you mean that you have never had it serviced in the last 5+ years since you bought the van. It may be the case that regular servicing could have spotted the problem earleir. It may then be argued that the cost of the remedy has been increased due to that lack of service. Thus you should contribute towards the cost of remedying the defect. After all it may now not be a case of just putting right the design fault, but also repairing the damage caused by that fault.

You may also have a claim against your credit card company if you paid for any part of the cost with your credit card.

If you think of any other facts it may be useful to post them as little facts can just alter advice that has been given based in the limited facts already presented.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Would you think that maybe the best course of action is to get an unbiased engineer report on the van and to present that to Bailey and or just the dealer? As at this present time we have not approached either. Unfortunately or fortunately, we used all of our savings to buy this van so did not need to use a credit card.

Also the caravan engineer who has discussed this with us has confirmed it is water ingress and it it a large problem with all bailey models from 2004-2007.

Many thanks for your reply Louise

Hi louise,

From what you say, you are in breach of your Bailey waranty. That is conditioned on the van being serviced annually and then within a certain timeframe from the anniversary of your purchase. So, no point in raising it with Bailey. Go back to your dealer with the report you already have.

Be prepared for the Dealer to argue about his liabity after all this time. That's life. Just fire back with the legals I have set out above. The dealer could go back to Bailey as I would expect it to have a contract with Bailey under which the dealer may be able to recover any costs. Be prepared for the Dealer to suggest that you meet some of the costs as a compromise. I think that that would be a fair way forward in view of the lack of servicing.

For anyone else, even if you have the cash, always use your card, if you can,  for some of the payment and then pay the card off before you are charged interest. It just gives you another way to recover losses. The card company may also have a word with the dealer. That can hlep you.

Phil

If the design defect, or lack of service were to make the caravan unroadworthy then you could potentially have a problem with your insurance. Both caravan and car must be in a roadworthy condition. It is a very valid point Surfer01 makes and a good reason to have your caravan regularly serviced.

Driving an unroadworth vehicle (which includes what you tow) can mean 3 points on your licence and a fine of up to £3000. Just having a defective light can be enough.

The EU keeps hinting at introducing MOTs for caravans, but that is probably a long way off.

If you put your caravan in for a service, and it is unroadworthy, the garage will advise you of all of the defects. If you decline to have them fixed then, strictly speaking, the garage cannot release the caravan to you in that unroadworth state unless you have a trailer to tow it away on. It would be a criminal offence.

Phil