Was watching a van on Ebay that is at a local sellers to us in Ingatestone, it is stated as Cat C insurance claim from an accident as the pics show slight cosmetic damage to a rear corner that hasn't pierced the skin.
We didn't go to view it but it got me thinking, what are the pitfalls of buying a van that has been an insurance job or even stolen and recovered?
Has anyone bought one and had any problems?
------------- "Close your eyes and pretend it's all a dream, that's how I get by"
Being a category C van the cost to repair was more than the value of the caravan. So the price being asked should not be much more than the cost of the repairs. Check with the seller why it was viable to repair contrary to the principles of category C. Find out who did the repair - was it an approved workshop or some bloke in a pub. What warranties can the dealer provide for the van. If its three months or less then forget it.
Some insurance companies will not cover category C vehicles so if you are to buy then you need to check first that you can actually get insurance for it.
Check the CRiSS registration just in case it has been stolen damaged repaired and put back on the market
If you have a choice between genuine second hand and a cat C always go for the genuine second hand.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
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I'm guessing that will the the place that sells Hobbys & Tabberts etc so the 'van may be well lived in. If the caravan is £1000 or less, it don't really really matter because it ain't worth insuring anyway.
Theses no legal requirement to insure a caravan as you are covered by your car ins. for third party risks while towing.
It will always be a Cat C van and difficult to sell on when you want to. You will buy it cheaply but you will also sell it cheaply. No real benefit in buying it. You'd be better buying an older non cat C van for the same money.
cat c is just light/repairable damage, they say that a cat c loses a third of its value, you need to find out if the van has been repaired properly, some insurance companyies dont like cat c's either.
"Category C Repairable salvage. Usually applies to vehicles with significant damage and where the cost of repairs exceeds the book value. It can be sold for repair but must have VIC(Vehicle Identity Check) inspection before returning to the road. V5 documents are returned to DVLA and recorded as category C vehicles. You can re-apply for registration on the original identity once the VIC inspection has been done. VIC inspection and re-registration removes the Category C classification, but evidence it was at one time Category C remains on the vehicle's record at the DVLA and so will appear on a vehicle data check."
Most of that definition applies to a car, in particular the section about DVLA and registration. In the case of a caravan the cat C is limited to it being beyond economic repair.
So what can you do to satisfy yourself that the van is roadworthy. The dealer and private seller have a statutory duty to sell you a roadworthy caravan. It is a criminal offence under s 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to sell,offer to sell or expose for sale an unroadworthy vehicle or trailer (caravan) punishable by a fine of up to £2000. In the case of a business sale, where the facts of a case would support a charge under s 75 of the 1988 Act there is also a potential charge under s 1(1) of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (false trade description). Thismay, on conviction, lead to a term of imprisonment of up to two years.
If the seller does not indicate that the van is being sold either a) as scrap to be used as spares or b) on the understanding that it is unroadworthy and the purchaser will be responsible for restoring it to a roadworthy state then it is implied into your contract to purchase that it is roadworthy.
However, never rely on implied terms. You should be asking just what evidence the seller has that it is in fact roadworthy. Once you have bought such a van the duty to make sure it is roadworthy rests with the buyer.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
have a really good look at it before buying, take a mat and crawl around under it to see what state the chassis is in and the floor. If it's cheap (under 2-3k) then it's possibly worth a punt if you're happy havign crawled aroung it, if more expensive I'd buy a lesser spec but sound van personally
Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 08/10/2011
Most of that definition applies to a car, in particular the section about DVLA and registration. In the case of a caravan the cat C is limited to it being beyond economic repair.
So what can you do to satisfy yourself that the van is roadworthy. The dealer and private seller have a statutory duty to sell you a roadworthy caravan. <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN" lang=EN>It is a criminal offence under s 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to sell,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>offer to sell or expose for sale an unroadworthy vehicle or trailer (caravan) punishable by a fine of up to £2000. I<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN" lang=EN>n the case of a business sale, where the facts of a case would support a charge under s 75 of the 1988 Act there is also a potential charge under s 1(1) of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (false trade description). This<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>may, on conviction, lead to a term of imprisonment of up to two years. </SPAN></SPAN>
<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN" lang=EN>If the seller does not indicate that the van is being sold either a) as scrap to be used as spares or </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN" lang=EN>b) on the understanding that it is unroadworthy and the purchaser will be responsible for restoring it to a roadworthy state then it is implied into your contract to purchase that it is roadworthy.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
</SPAN></SPAN>However, never rely on implied terms. You should be asking just what evidence the seller has that it is in fact roadworthy. Once you have bought such a van the duty to make sure it is roadworthy rests with the buyer.
Phil
So if you sell a caravan as a static it has to be roadworthy?
------------- Caravanning is a way of getting a cheap holiday out of an expensive hobby
If you are going to be pedantic Rune, then at least make your posts presentable...
If the seller intends to tow the caravan away then the responsible thing to do is ensure to the best of your knowledge the caravan is roadworthy. In practise, provided the brakes & lights work, the tyres have legal tread & no damage then you have done enough...
Phil can argue the legal points of worst case scenarios but in the real world if you buy or sell a caravan privately you need to ascertain the caravan is safe to tow, which ain't rocket science really.
If a dealer is dodgy enough to allow customers to tow away unsafe caravans then any legal redress against that dealer(in the real world)would be difficult to obtain anyway.
Now the reason I ask is simply because there are a lot of touring caravans being sold as sited, in other words statics.
So if they being sold as statics with the option of taking on the rental of the site, does this present a get out clause for the seller if the new owner finds he's bought a caravan with faulty running gear
Perhaps you'd like to answer Mr Tentz to give Phil a rest
------------- Caravanning is a way of getting a cheap holiday out of an expensive hobby
If a touring caravan is sold sited & the buyer intends to continue to use the van on site then it does not have to be roadworthy. Often a sited touring caravan is sold with the proviso that the seller must remove it from the site. If the seller stated(in writing as well)to the buyer that(say)the 'van had not been moved for 3yrs & he could not be responsible for the roadworthiness of the 'van then that would be good enough.
In the real world, anybody intending to tow a secondhand caravan that they had bought off ebay etc, from a private seller would need to arrive at the collection point with tools, tyre pump & some mechanical knowledge.
Get back to the dealer with your evidence and challenge them about it!
The most I would think you will receive is the money back. You will then be rushing to get another van for your holiday, I doubt they will reimburse any costs for the holiday though.
They might be reluctant to do anything and claim you should have got the vehicle checked like car dealers do.
I would say that by not informing you that caravan is a write off, then you are probably entitled to a refund because you could argue that the dealer has misrepresented the goods.
Was caravan sold with or without warranty though? If not you have to hope that the dealer is cooperative though because he could equally argue that if he you sold the caravan 'as seen' or 'as taken in' & there is nothing in law that requires any check or registration with Cris, then he has done nothing wrong.
Also provided caravan is roadworthy it is not illegal to tow because even if uninsurable it is not illegal to tow an uninsured caravan & you are covered for 3rd party risks by your car insurance. You have to either hope dealer refunds or see what trading standards make of it because even if caravan was sold as seen, it was presented as a usable caravan which if uninsurable it might not be.
I don't think that a CatC written off caravan is necessarily uninsurable though, you could speak to Cris about this. Caravans can be written off, for example just by hail damage on roof which can hardly be seen & nothing is mechanically wrong with it at all.
If you can establish why caravan was written off & make it insurable it might be worth a partial refund from dealer so your holiday plans are unaffected.
I agree with mummyintent! Get straight back to the dealer, and challenge them. If they didn't inform you that the van was a write-off, I believe they have committed an offence under the trades description act, and the sale of goods act. If they are responsible dealers, they should be keen to put things right quickly to protect their reputation and hopefully persuade you not to take things further. If they don't offer to refund your money immediately, contact trading standards.
Although it is advisable to do so, you are under no obligation to get a caravan checked. However, there is a legal obligation on a dealer to ensure that what they are selling is as described. If they have sold you a right-off that wasn't clearly described as such, then they may have committed a serious offence.
The above does not apply however in the case of a private sale.