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Subject Topic: Rejecting a new van- legal position
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21/4/2012 at 11:18pm
 Location: plymouth
 Outfit: fiat trigano tribute 665
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If  I were you i would contact swift on their website 'swift-talk ' giving the general outline of your problem and I am sure someone will get back to you asking for exact details of faults ,dealer responses etc to be sent by e mail so that they can look at it and it is quite likely they will get in touch tomorrow as there is very often one of their staff on line and Ican personally vouch for their service having once had them for advice

 

    doug



22/4/2012 at 8:58am
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Doug thanks but its a Lunar 530(now amended my profile). The generics of your advice aren't lost though, albeit I am also aware that in contractual terms, the dealer bears the responsibility.

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Oh it said walker?


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22/4/2012 at 10:27am
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: 07 Lunar Quasar 615 2.0tdci Smax
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Quote: Originally posted by iybyisyl on 21/4/2012
Ok.. maybe this is a simple view.. what if the van was subjected to an insurance loss... how do the insurance company know how much we paid... similarly, if I buy a second hand car... the value of the purchase less the value of the PX is expressed in true terms on a given receipt why is this not the case in this instance?


Insurance will only pay what it WAS worth, or replace with new if its in the terms, having a scrap of paper showing you paid £1m for it wouldnt work... or any other price.


22/4/2012 at 11:41am
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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Good Morning,

You have indicated that the caravan is "new" which I take to mean brand new rather than new to you (secondhand). You have also indicated that you bought the van in March of this year and that it has a broken TV aerial, the Radio doesn't work, it has Cosmetic damage and a suspicion of damp. Just reciting the facts so that if I have misunderstood anything you can correct me. The following legal position applies to the facts of this case so it is important that I understand them correctly.

If the van is unfit for purpose, or has minor defects, then rejection is not necessarily the option available to you, in law. They may be able to undertake a repair without causing inconvenience, or taking too long, and if that is the case the Dealer could insist on providing that repair rather than accepting its rejection, and the return of your money. Note, I say if it is "unfit for purpose." I will come back to this point.

On a procedural point, it is helpful to your cause that, as you want them to do something, you have notified them within six months of the purchase of the van. The law assumes that defects which arise in the first six months after you bought the van were there when it was sold and so the Dealer is in breach of contract. The onus is on the Dealer to proove otherwise if it wants to avoid any liability. So, after inspecting the van if they try to allege that you caused the damage and refuse to do anything, they simply can't in law, unless they can proove that you damaged the aerial etc. It can be too easy to be misled by a dealer in this respect and then spend time trying to justify that you did not damage the parts.

Now, what you have done, so far, is to ask them to look at the van but I guess in your conversation you may have mentioned to them that you wanted them to effect the repairs. Once a consumer asks a seller to undertake the repairs then they are stuck with that option once the seller has put those repairs into action. Just think about what you actually asked them to do. If, once they have appraised the van, they tell you what is required then you need to consider how you are to respond if you want to keep open your option to reject the van (if you can in law)

If, at this stage, they are simply going to look at the van and let you have their view on the defects, then no repairs have been put into effect so your options remain open. Upon receipt of their views you need to ask them how long the repairs would take to be completed. If they give you a long timeframe then that could assist you in rejecting the van. If the timeframe is short but that will cause you inconvenience, then you may be able to reject the van. So, give them the opportunity to let them tell you how long it will take before you commit to anything. Before you meet with them think about what timeframe would "inconvenience" you and how you would be inconvenienced. It is important to have your arguments ready, and strategy planned out, if you want to keep open the option to reject. It is not as simple as saying "I want my money back" sticking to the letter of the law. You have to develop your case to meet the qualifications the law imposes upon you.

Now, from the list of defects you have provided, I have to say that it does not sound as though the van is unfit for purpose sufficient for you to reject the van. If it has damp then the position may be different depending upon the extent of the damp. If the draughts in the van are caused by the vents being open in these cold evenings then that would not be a ground to reject. The damaged aerial, radio and cosmetic issues don't sound like matters that should take too long to remedy, so I am not sure that you have grounds to reject in law. Mind you we don't know what conclusions the Dealer will reach, nor have I seen the van to form any proper judgement. Just making the point so that you appreciate where you may stand on rejecting the van.

The fact that you keep the van in Sidmouth when you live in the Midlands could suggest that you do not use it every month (as we do with ours). Thus, its lack of availability for a couple of months whilst being repaired may not be an inconvenience. You may have to take the van from Sidmouth up to the Dealers for repair which would be an inconvenience, but not an inconvenience referred to in the legislation. After all it was your choice to buy from a dealer 200 miles away and then park the van in Devon. The Dealer cannot be held liable for that decision. So, if the Dealer offers to repair provided that you take the van back, you cannot argue that that journey is an inconvenience such that, within the relevant consumer law, you want to reject the van and get your money back. You would need to come up with another argument.

If you had told the Dealer, when you bought the van, that you were buying it to leave it in Devon and that you wanted an assurance from the Dealer that it would travel to undertake any repairs, and now it wants the van back at its depot then you may have that "inconvenience" argument to justify rejection. Hope you can see why you need to think about the arguments you may want to run to reject the van and how the law operates in this respect.

Of course the Dealer could accept rejection and give you your money back disregarding the legal process set out in the relevant Regulations. That is the dealer's option. If the Dealer wishes to challenge any rejection on your part, then you have to play the game by the rules. Asking them to give you your money back and unable to quote a reason that stands up in law can be held against you if you then want to take the matter further. It is unhelpful to a consumer's cause if he changes his reasons for pursuing a particular cause of action.

By the same token saying you want to reject because it doesn't work having a van in Sidmouth is not a valid argument. Not saying that that is the case just using that as an example. If you get to litigation over the issue, and you did happen to say that, it would be used against you in court.

Anyway, you have some time to prepare before they visit your van...just don't leave it longer than six months from the date you bought the van.

As for the receipt, that has to show exactly what you paid for the van, less your part x. They may list the VAT as a separate figure, but the figures on that receipt have to be what you agreed.

Hope it all works out OK for you.

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


24/4/2012 at 9:00pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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All, thanks so much for all replies.
cwdc56768- Phil- a special thank you for your detailed and very enlightening response. It really is so very nice of you to take the time and trouble to advise on your thoughts in such a manner. I am grateful and it has provided a useful sanity check for me and helped align my thought processes.

The van is Brand new. At point of purchase I did clearly express the situation re location of the van to the dealer and was assured of their attention and support re service calls. To this end and in all fairness the dealer has arranged a service call, by an independent service technician, local to Sidmouth in May when the van is next in use. They have agreed to replace parts where necessary for the cosmetic issues. Ariel point, Handle and repair where possible. The issues with the heater and the potential damp will be subject to inspection and I assume further commentary.If damp is found, I will then review and make attempts to reject the van, which I think is the advice within your reply?

I still await the receipt to the correct value. How do I insist on this would you suggest polite request seem to gain no traction?
Thanks

Post last edited on 24/04/2012 21:06:00

Post last edited on 24/04/2012 21:07:36

-------------
Oh it said walker?


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24/4/2012 at 10:29pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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Think I would like a little more detail about exactly what the receipt says. It just seems so odd as to be unbelievable and maybe, just maybe, they are right. Just baffling that they may be trying a tax dodge so I would prefer a little more clarity on the detail before advising on the way forward.

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


25/4/2012 at 7:37pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Hi Phil, is it possible to PM you?

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Oh it said walker?


25/4/2012 at 9:00pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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partyzone at wymingbrook.co.uk



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


01/5/2012 at 5:13pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Hi Phil, sorry will get around to sending you some details shortly, been busy with little time... thanks

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Oh it said walker?


01/5/2012 at 6:46pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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OK

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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


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03/5/2012 at 5:32pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Hi Phil- Address not recognised?

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Oh it said walker?


03/5/2012 at 5:35pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Hi tried another.. can you confirm?
Thx

-------------
Oh it said walker?


03/5/2012 at 6:45pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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did you change "at" to the at sign????

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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


03/5/2012 at 7:33pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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OK.. thanks, feel a little daft now!!

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Oh it said walker?


03/5/2012 at 10:12pm
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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Will get back to you tomorrow. Having received your email and looked at the figures.....well, in the words of Mr Spock..."It is not logical Captain"!!!! Need to think about it

 

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


04/5/2012 at 9:50pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Freelander 2 TD4 Lunar Lexon 530
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Phil thanks for your response, much appreciated. I will update this post once the service call has been made, which is next week, and at the same time can hopefully report a receipt to the correct value has been produced.
Thanks once again to one and all for your much appreciated input.

-------------
Oh it said walker?



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