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Subject Topic: Is it worth the paper its written on?
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10/1/2013 at 5:14pm
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I think they believe that by using a place such as a Yacht station/moorings that once they have paid their mooring fee for the night, they can simply hold a meet the same as if a group of friends had met up for a picnic somewhere.

There is no telling some people, even the group leader cannot see the logic in having events insurance in place, as he classes those attending as 'just family and friends'!

They seem to be clinging to the misbelief that they can only be sued for a mishap if it takes place on public land, and that family and friends will never sue them if a mishap ever occurs, except some of these 'friends' are just people they have invited via an internet enthusiasts forum, which is a smaller version of this one, devoted to boating, so infact relative strangers that they have never met before in some cases.

Julia

 



Post last edited on 10/01/2013 17:44:37

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Celebrating 37 years of Caravanning in 2019, Recently Considered Retiring, but Totally Addicted for Life!


10/1/2013 at 6:10pm
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If you look at the case I quoted the parents of the child who was permanently disabled after an accident on the bouncy castle sued and they were friends. The child needed so much money for 24 hour care. It happens. Anyway, If they are on their own Yacht presumably they have insurance anyway?

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


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10/1/2013 at 6:21pm
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House insurance includes public liability cover for the scenario of inviting people around for a party for example & one would expect yacht insurance to have the same sort of cover(caravan cover does)but it would have to be a private party that did not charge admission I would think.


10/1/2013 at 8:30pm
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They often (but not always) moor their own small cruisers nearby, but then use whatever patch of land there is nearby to set up their party, so not actually onboard any boat or yacht as they would be far too small. TBH most like to take their boat with them so that when they have had 'one over the eight' they are within staggering distance of their bunks.

I have now been shot down by them over the disclaimer notices, with them saying 'if they are good enough for Tescos carparks, they are good enough for us'  

As I said Phil, some people just wont listen to common sence.

I have even been accused now of being something to do with the insurance industry with only my profits in mind, I have never known such a bunch of silly people, and at the moment im just leaving them to it.

Julia



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Just love to be out amoungst Nature and Wildlife

Celebrating 37 years of Caravanning in 2019, Recently Considered Retiring, but Totally Addicted for Life!


10/1/2013 at 8:51pm
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I would say insurance for what you describe is a bit 'belt & braces'. It sounds like just a group of friends having a picnic in a park. Its difficult to see what could actually happen here, somebody might trip over the barbecue or perhaps the gazebo could blow away & injure somebody but then who would they sue & how could they prove who was liable? It may depend if a specific person provided food & drink & charged for it or if everybody brought their own food & drink & shared the barbecue.


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10/1/2013 at 8:53pm
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Thought you might like our council notes on holding events please note we also require insurance cover for such events of ten million pounds public liability
     
     General
     
The police and local authority exercising environmental health functions may intervene on the grounds of any of the four licensing objectives (the prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance, and the protection of children from harm) to prevent the occurrence of an event at which permitted temporary activities are to take place or to agree a modification of the arrangements for such an event. However, the licensing authority will intervene of its own volition in the cases described below.

First, it will issue a counter notice if there is an objection to a late temporary event notice (see note 7 below).

Secondly, it may issue a notice in relation to its decision to impose conditions on a temporary event notice (see note 2 below).

Thirdly, it will issue a counter notice if the first, second and fourth of the limits set out below would be exceeded. If any of the limits below are breached or if a counter notice has been issued, any licensable activities taking place would be unauthorised and the premises user would be liable to prosecution. The limitations apply to:

the number of times a person (the ?premises user?) may give a temporary event notice (50 times per year for a personal licence holder and 5 times per year for other people);
the number of times a person (the ?premises user?) may give a late temporary event notice (10 times per year for a personal licence holder and 2 times per year for other people);
the number of times a temporary event notice may be given in respect of any particular premises (12 times in a calendar year);
the length of time a temporary event may last for these purposes (168 hours);
the maximum aggregate duration of the periods covered by temporary event notices at any individual premises (21 days per calendar year); and
the scale of the event in terms of the maximum number of people attending at any one time (a maximum of 499).
For the purposes of determining the overall limits of 50 temporary event notices per personal licence holder (in a calendar year) and of 5 for a non-personal licence holder (in a calendar year), temporary event notices given by an associate or a person who is in business with a premises user (and that business involves carrying on licensable activities) count towards those totals. The limits applying to late temporary event notices are included within the overall limits applying to the total number of temporary event notices. Note 14 below explains the definition of an ?associate?.

     
When permitted temporary activities take place, a premises user must ensure that either:

a copy of the temporary event notice endorsed as acknowledged by the licensing authority is prominently displayed at the premises; or that

the temporary event notice is kept at the premises either in his own custody or in the custody of a person present and working at the premises and whom he has nominated for that purpose.

Where the temporary event notice is in the custody of a nominated person, a notice specifying that fact and the position held by that person must be displayed prominently at the premises.

Where the temporary event notice or a notice specifying the nominated person is displayed, a constable or an authorised person (for example, a licensing officer, fire officer or environmental health officer) may require the premises user to produce the temporary event notice for examination. Similarly, where the nominated person has the temporary event notice in his custody, a constable or authorised person may require that person to produce it for examination. Failure to produce the temporary event notice without reasonable excuse would be an offence.

It should also be noted that the following, among other things, are offences under the Licensing Act 2003:

the sale or supply of alcohol to children under 18 years of age (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 5 on the standard scale, currently £5,000);
allowing the sale of alcohol to children under 18 (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 5 on the standard scale, currently £5,000);
knowingly allowing the consumption of alcohol on the premises by a person aged under 18 (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 5 on the standard scale, currently £5,000);
allowing disorderly behaviour on the premises (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 3 on the standard scale, currently £1,000);
the sale of alcohol to a person who is drunk (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 3 on the standard scale, currently £1,000);
obtaining alcohol for a person who is drunk (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 3 on the standard scale, currently £1,000);
knowingly allowing a person aged under 18 to make any sale or supply of alcohol unless the sale or supply has been specifically approved by the premises user or any individual aged 18 or over who has been authorised for this purpose by the premises user (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 1 on the standard scale, currently £200); and
knowingly keeping or allowing to be kept on the premises any smuggled goods which have been imported without payment of duty or which have otherwise been unlawfully imported (maximum fine on conviction is a fine up to level 3 on the standard scale, currently £1,000).
In addition, where the premises are to be used primarily or exclusively for the sale or supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises, it is an offence to allow children under 16 to be present when the premises are open for that purpose unless they are accompanied by an adult. In the case of any premises at which sales or supplies of alcohol are taking place at all, it is an offence for a child under 16 to be present there between the hours of midnight and 5am unless accompanied by an adult. In both instances, the penalty on conviction is a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, currently £1,000.


     Note 1
     
A temporary event notice may only be given by an individual and not, for example, by an organisation or club or business. The individual giving the notice is the proposed ?premises user?. Within businesses, clubs or organisations, one individual will therefore need to be identified as the proposed premises user.

If you include an e-mail address in section 1(7) or 1(9), the licensing authority may send to this the acknowledgement of receipt of your notice or any notice or counter notice it is required to give under sections 104A, 106A or 107 of the Licensing Act 2003.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 2
     
For the purposes of the Licensing Act 2003, ?premises? means any place. Premises will therefore not always be a building with a formal address and postcode. Premises can include, for example, public parks, recreation grounds and private land.

If a premises licence or club premises certificate has effect in relation to the premises (or any part of the premises) which you want to use to carry on licensable activities, it is possible that any conditions which apply to the licence or certificate may be imposed on the temporary event notice if certain pre-conditions are met. These pre-conditions are that the police or the local authority exercising environmental health functions object to the notice and the licensing authority decides:

not to give a counter notice under section 105 of the Licensing Act 2003;
the conditions apply to the licence or certificate; and
the imposition of the conditions on the notice would not be inconsistent with the carrying on of the licensable activities under the notice.
< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 3
     
A temporary event notice can be given for part of a building, such as a single room or a plot within a larger area of land. You should provide a clear description of the area in which you propose to carry on licensable activities. This is important as any licensable activities conducted outside the area of the premises protected by the authority of this temporary event notice would be unlawful and could lead to prosecution.

In addition, when holding the proposed event, the premises user would need to be able to restrict the number of people on the premises at any one time when licensable activities are taking place to less than 500. If more than 499 are on the premises when licensable activities are being carried on, the licensable activities would be unlawful and the premises user would be liable to prosecution. The maximum figure of 499 includes, for example, staff, organisers, stewards and performers.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 4
     
A description of the nature of the premises assists the chief officer of police and local authority exercising environmental health functions in deciding if any issues relating to the licensing objectives are likely to arise. You should state clearly that the premises to be used are, for example, a public house, a restaurant, an open field, a village hall or a beer tent.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 5
     
A description of the nature of the event similarly assists the chief officer of police and local authority exercising environmental health functions in making a decision as to whether or not to make an objection. You should state clearly that the event taking place at the premises would be, for example, a wedding with a pay bar, the supply of beer at a particular farmers? market, a discotheque, the performance of a string quartet, a folk group or a rock band.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 6
     
The licensable activities are:

the sale by retail of alcohol;
the supply of alcohol by or on behalf of a club to, or to the order of, a member of a club;
the provision of regulated entertainment; and
the provision of late night refreshment.
Please refer to Schedules 1 and 2 to the Licensing Act 2003 for fuller details of the definitions and exemptions relating to regulated entertainment and late night refreshment.

Regulated entertainment, subject to specified conditions and exemptions, includes:

(a) a performance of a play;
(b) an exhibition of a film;
(c) an indoor sporting event;
(d) a boxing or wrestling entertainment;
(e) a performance of live music;
(f) any playing of recorded music;
(g) a performance of dance;
(h) entertainment of a similar description to that falling within (e), (f) or (g).
Regulated entertainment also includes the provision of ?entertainment facilities? for:

(a) making music;
(b) dancing; and
(c) entertainment of a similar description to that falling within (a) or (b).
If you are uncertain whether or not the activities that you propose are licensable, you should contact your licensing authority for further advice.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 7
     
Late notices can be given no later than 5 working days but no earlier than 9 working days before the event in relation to which the notice is given. A late notice given later than 5 working days before the event to which it relates will be returned as void and the activities described in it will not be authorised.

The number of late notices that can be given in any one calendar year is limited to 5 for personal licence holders and 2 for non-personal licence holders. These count towards the total number of temporary event notices (i.e. 50 temporary event notices per year for personal licence holders and 5 temporary event notices for non-personal licence holders).

If there is an objection from either the police or local authority exercising environmental health functions, the event will not go ahead and a counter notice will be issued.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 8
     
The maximum period for using premises for licensable activities under the authority of a temporary event notice is 168 hours (seven days).

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 9
     
You should state here the times during the event period, for example 48 hours, when you intend to carry on licensable activities. For example, you may not intend to carry on licensable activities throughout the entire 48 hour event period, and may intend to sell alcohol between 8.00 hrs and 23.00 hrs on each of the two days.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 10
     
No more than 499 may be on the premises for a temporary event at any one time when licensable activities are being carried on. If you intend to have more than 499 attending the event, you should obtain a premises licence for the event. Your licensing authority should be able to advise you. The maximum figure of 499 does not just include the audience, spectators or consumers and includes, for example, staff, organisers, stewards and performers who will be present on the premises.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 11
     
If you indicate that alcohol will be supplied only for consumption on the premises, you would be required to ensure that no person leaves the premises with alcohol supplied there. If such a supply takes place, the premises user may be liable to prosecution for carrying on an unauthorised licensable activity. Similarly, if the premises user gives notice that only supplies of alcohol for consumption off the premises will take place, he/she must ensure that alcohol supplied is not consumed on the premises. The premises user is free to give notice that he/she intends to carry on both types of supplies. For this purpose the supply of alcohol includes both of the first two licensable activities listed in note 6 above.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 12
     
The holder of a valid personal licence issued under the Licensing Act 2003 may give up to 50 temporary event notices in any calendar year subject to the other limitations in the 2003 Act. A proposed premises user who holds such a licence should give the details requested.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 13
     
As stated under Note 12, a personal licence holder (issued under the Licensing Act 2003) may give up to 50 temporary event notices (including 5 late notices) in any calendar year. An individual who does not hold a personal licence may only give 5 temporary event notices (including 2 late notices) in England and Wales in any calendar year. A calendar year is the period between 1 January to 31 December inclusive in any year.

If an event straddles two calendar years, it will count against the limits on temporary event notices (12 for each premises, 21 days for each premises, 50 per personal licence holder and 5 for non-holders) for each year, however, only one notice needs to be given.

For the purposes of determining the overall limits of 50 temporary event notices per personal licence holder (in a calendar year) and of 5 for a non-personal licence holder (in a calendar year), temporary event notices given by an associate or a person who is in business with a premises user (and that business involves carrying on licensable activities) count towards those totals. Note 14 below sets out the definition of an ?associate?.

If a temporary event notice has been given for the same premises, by the same premises user, and would have effect within 24 hours before the start of the event period under the current proposal or within 24 hours after the end of that period, the temporary event notice given would be void and any licensable activities carried on under it would therefore be unlicensed.

For the purposes of determining whether or not the required gap of 24 hours is upheld, temporary event notices given by an associate or a person who is in business with a premises user (and that business involves carrying on licensable activities) count as if they had been given by the premises user himself. Note 14 below sets out the definition of an ?associate?.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 14
     
An ?associate? of the proposed premises user is:

a. the spouse of that person;
b. a child, parent, grandchild, grandparent, brother or sister of that person;
c. an agent or employee of that person; or
d. the spouse of a person within (b) or (c).
For these purposes, a person living with another as that person?s husband or wife is to be treated as that person?s spouse.

These provisions will be subject to amendment by the Civil Partnerships Act. These amendments are due to take effect from 5th December 2005.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 15
     
It is a requirement that you send at least one copy of this notice to the licensing authority at least ten working days (or five working days for a late notice) before the commencement of the proposed licensable activities. The authority will give you written acknowledgement of the receipt of the notice. This will be important proof that you gave the notice and when you gave it for the purposes of the Act. Some premises may be situated in two licensing authority areas, for example, where a building or field straddles the local authority boundary. Where this is the case, at least one copy of the notice must be sent to each of the licensing authorities identified, together with the appropriate fee in each case. In such circumstances, you will receive acknowledgements from all the relevant licensing authorities.

One copy must be sent to each of the chief officer of police and the local authority exercising environmental health functions for the area in which the premises is situated at least ten working days for a standard notice (or five working days for a late notice) before the commencement of the proposed licensable activities. Where the premises are situated in two police areas or environmental health areas, a further copy will need to be sent to the second police force and local authority exercising environmental health functions.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 16
     
Under the Licensing Act 2003, all temporary event notices are given subject to a mandatory condition requiring that where the licensable activities involve the supply of alcohol, all such supplies must be made by or under the authority of the named premises user. If there is a breach of this condition, the premises user and the individual making the supply in question would be liable to prosecution. For this purpose the supply of alcohol includes both of the first two licensable activities listed in note 6 above.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 17
     
It is an offence knowingly or recklessly to make a false statement in, or in connection with, a temporary event notice. (A person is to be treated as making a false statement if he produces, furnishes, signs or otherwise makes use of a document that contains a false statement). To do so could result in prosecution and a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     

     Note 18
     
You should not complete section 10 of the notice, which is for use by the licensing authority. It may complete this section as one means of giving you written acknowledgement of the receipt of the notice.

< Return to Temporary Event Notice form
     





10/1/2013 at 9:10pm
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It would depend if it was a group of friends having a picnic or a public event though, at what point does one become the other assuming it is only loosely organized, no entry fee is charged & people bring their own food & drink?


10/1/2013 at 11:39pm
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Thanks for that Romany, it sure makes a detailed read, but if I showed it to the people in question, I doubt they would even try to understand it, never mind act upon it!

Tentz, the problem is where does an internet forum's status fall into all this? To me its an invite to anyone who cares to sign up to join in the activities as advertised on their threads. Its definately more than just a group of family and friends, and although they ask people to bring their own food, they do provide the BBq equipment, gazebos, and forum trappings in the form of banners and advertising stuff which they drape around the area, and on some occasions they also run a genny to power up lights if needed for an evening.

TBH, I have made it plain to them that I dont wish to be involved in any of these meets unless they take the appropiate steps regards permissions and events insurance when they set them up, In a nutshell, I dont want to be the one putting my home and possesions at risk just because of the actions of these numpties, and until they can see some common sense, I wont be any part of their forum either.

Julia

 

  



-------------
Just love to be out amoungst Nature and Wildlife

Celebrating 37 years of Caravanning in 2019, Recently Considered Retiring, but Totally Addicted for Life!


11/1/2013 at 7:28am
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So, you live next to the mooring and thirty odd folk are partying into the night lighting fires and running a generator, perhaps playing music without anyone around to stop the event late into the night. What are the chances of a complaint to the powers that be? It.s about consideration for others and approaching the organising of an event in the proper manner.

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


11/1/2013 at 2:30pm
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Thanks Phil, well the latest news is they have not taken the advice given at all, and are now planning to kick up a racket down on Beccles Marina (which is also open to holidaymakers on hireboats) during the last week of July, the first weekend that the schools break up. This is an area adjacent to some residential properties and within shouting distance of the houseboats moored out on the main river.

They have no insurance cover, they only have the go ahead from the harbour master, who is an employee of the Broads Authority, and they are arriving in a group of around 20 boats, so no spaces left for the poor holidaymakers on hireboats who have cruised down to one of the only a very few accessable spots on the broads via boat for the shops, and there are no alternative moorings, or indeed water filling points nearby, the nearest one is about a three hour cruise away.

As I have said, this attitude has caused myself and a couple of others who have been members and supported them over the years, to drop out of such events, or indeed any kind of fundraising on their behalf, and we have now opted out of being a part of such nonsence. There are privately owned pieces of land on the broads that are available to hire to groups for events and outward bound courses ect, they are away from any possible noise nuisance to others and are rather like islands as far as access is concerned, so you pay the hire fee and take out the insurance then get on with your gathering in Private, but this lot just wont pay the fees. 

They just make me so angry, they believe they know better than the advice you or anyone else has kindly given them, and worse still are now going on to plan more of these events over the months to come, the next one being down at Oulton broad YS over the Easter BH weekend, again selfishly taking up all the moorings over a busy weekend for holidaymakers, when most of them live locally, and can take their boats out just about when they please. 

Julia



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Just love to be out amoungst Nature and Wildlife

Celebrating 37 years of Caravanning in 2019, Recently Considered Retiring, but Totally Addicted for Life!


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11/1/2013 at 7:15pm
 Location: Bolton Lancs
 Outfit: Tent & Toyota Granvia
View Tigermouse's Profile View Profile   Reply to Tigermouse Reply   Quote Tigermouse Quote  
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Beccles marina is one of my favourite places for walking the dogs and watching boats, I must remember to stay away from it that week

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Tigermouse


I have a very temperamental personality - 50% temper and 50% mental



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