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Subject Topic: France New Regulations Post Reply Post New Topic
17/2/2013 at 2:29pm
 Location: Wales
 Outfit: Caravan
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This was posted on the Swift web site today 17/02/2013. Anyone come across this?

Living in France, as I do, I thought it best if I inform you of some changes to the rules and thousands (millions?) of regulations that took effect from 19<sup>th</sup> January 2013 which affect those of you who travel with large outfits. Most of these new regulations only affect those who tow with a total ‘train’ weight i.e. car + caravan whose total gross weight exceeds 3500kg (3.5 tonnes). Weight, in this case, is called PTAC in France, and equates to the MGPLW in Britain. You can find your caravan’s MGPLW on your ‘A’ frame plate, or in your manual. It doesn’t actually matter how much the car or caravan actually weighs. Loaded up for holidays, I dare say most of you have exceeded these weights, but it’s irrelevant, it’s the published weight that matters. Don’t think that by underloading your ‘van you can get away with it. Again, it’s the published weight that matters

They have taken advantage of a new batch of EU regulations to sneak these changes in. The reason for the creation of these new rules is simply because the French – although you will not find this written down anywhere – hate, loathe, despise – or any unpleasant verb you can think of – the ‘gens de voyage’ or the travellers, Romanies, Gypsies, call them what you will,   so, to force them off the road, they have regulated. The 3 main points are:-

  1. Driving Licences. It used to be that if you had a British driving license, you were automatically entitled to tow a caravan if your ‘train weight’ was up to 4.5 tonnes. This has changed. There are now three levels of license
    1. Up to 3.5 tonnes (Permis B) – a normal UK license if fine, as long as your caravan is not heavier than your car. If it is, don’t bring it into France, it’s illegal unless you have the equivalent of at least (3) below.
    2. Between 3.5 and 4.5 tonnes (Permis E96). This is the newest level brought in at the insistence of the FFCC, the French Caravan Club, and has caused much confusion throughout France. Basically, if your UK driving license specifically states that you can tow a caravan, then it will be fine, otherwise, you must get your license endorsed by the DVLA. Not living in Britain any longer, I don’t know if this is chargeable.
    3. Over 4.5 tonnes (Permis EB - used to be an B/E - What? Confusion in France? They invented it!). The new regulation came into effect on 19<sup>th</sup> January 2013, and as at today (17<sup>th</sup> February) the full details have not yet been published – this is France, don’t forget! Most driving schools believe that if you are over 60 then forget it: you will not be allowed on French roads with a train weight this big. French drivers over 60 are required to undergo a strict medical every 2 years to keep their EB licence and you are assumed to have failed unless you can prove that you are fit. It is believed that if you are under 60 you may need to have the equivalent of a PSV, or Heavy Goods license when the final details bcome available.
  2. Speed Limits. For units over 3.5 tonnes, you will be restricted to a maximum of 90kph (about 56mph) on the French 'A' roads. ‘A’ roads are the roads where the speed limit for cars is 130 kph. If the speed limit is 110kph, then you are only allowed to do 90kph with a large caravan. So, don’t be fooled into thinking that because you are on a dual carriageway (usually an N road) you can do 90kph, you can’t, you can only do 80kph, which is the maximum speed on all other roads in France for you. At the same time new regulations have been passed to allow the police to set up speed traps wherever they want, and, believe me, they are. If you are caught speeding with a large caravan you run the risk of having your ‘van impounded until you have taken at least 7 hours of driving tests/ lessons. One further thing is that you must now display on the back of your caravan two stickers, one saying ‘80’ and the other ‘90’ - just in case you forget. The police are rather lax about this, they won’t stop you just for this, but if they feel in a bad mood if they do stop you, this is something else they will get you for.
  3. Campings Municipals. Throughout France nearly every large town has its own camp site, run by the mairie (the town hall). Generally speaking, these sites are very good. Simple, but very well maintained. However, in January an ‘advisory note’ was sent to all mairies in France, which was to be kept secret. However, our local Secretary knew we were caravanners, so he showed it to us. In effect, all double-axle caravans (double-essieu) are now banned from every Camping Municipal throughout France, and pressure is to be put on all commercial sites to follow, although I do not believe this will be very successful. The mairies are also being encouraged to charge considerably more if you tow with a 4X4. This is probably the most direct regulation against the travellers, but it has had repercussions for caravanners from Britain, Holland, Germany etc who have no problems with double-axles. We have tried to explain that double-axles are probably kinder to the ground than a large single axle, but rules is rules.

There is one further thing, which is an advisory from the FFCC. If you tow a double-axle caravan (whatever its weight) then is advisable to carry a small folder to prove that you have a fixed home, and don’t live in your caravan permanently. In this folder you should have:-

  • A copy of your caravan’s CRIS certificate
  • A copy of your latest Council tax bill
  • A copy of your latest electricity , water, telephone (not mobile), or gas bill
  • A copy of your driving license (including the photo).
  • A copy of your passport.

But, the important thing is to make sure that the same person’s name and address appear on all of these copies and that person is driving. This only takes a couple of minutes to set up and it can be very useful if you are asked to prove your identity in some remote part of France - don’t forget that a passport doesn’t have your address on it.

All this may sound oppressive, but if you are careful, it’s not that difficult to tour around France and to see some of the wonderful towns and scenery that we are blessed with here. The site owners or managers are always very friendly and helpful, and if you have children you will be welcomed with open arms.



17/2/2013 at 2:58pm
 Location: NE Scotland
 Outfit: Bailey Phoenix + CRV
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Thanks for the useful information. I have posted a link to here on the Caravanning Abroad topics

I was aware of most of that and a category BE (car and trailer) on the back of your D/L would be adequate authorisation I am sure, otherwise French Police Notebooks could be well filled this summer!

It is worth being aware of the speed limits as I am sure a lot of caravanners with large outfits are blissfully unaware.  We all need to be aware of the individual and combined weights of our outfits (remember that's the potential rather than the actual weights)

NB Speed limits for a car towing a trailer under 3.5 tonnes or a motorhome with gross vehicle weight under 3.5 tonne (which covers most of us) is as follows:

Motorway 130kph (80 mph) Dual Carr. 110kph(68mph) Single Carr 90kph (55mph)

These reduce to 110/100/80 when raining or otherwise adverse. 

There have been notices for years about double axles and often ignored by site owners if it is obvious you are a holidaymaker rather than a traveller.

Despite various threads on websites about overenthusiastic checks by the French Police and scare stuff, we seldom see road police and the only organised checks we have seen are speed checks and breath test checks but we have never been stopped.

I think we can be fairly relaxed about French traffic laws if we keep the speed down and behave sensibly.  I can't see UK holiday caravanners being barred from any other than the most rigid of site jobsworths but if they are, they can always join in with the Romanies at the side of the road or in a car park - no site fees.

 



Post last edited on 17/02/2013 15:46:03

Post last edited on 17/02/2013 15:49:21

Post last edited on 17/02/2013 16:06:32

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17/2/2013 at 3:23pm
 Location:  Dumfries
 Outfit: 2022 CoachmanVIP 2022 Pilote P696GJ
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Only Spain in the future for us
TBH I much prefer the weather and euros go further
In Espana so to hell with the Frogs and there regulations
I'll be spending my money here instead.

Neil
Currently at Camping Tropicana , Alcossebre , Castellon


17/2/2013 at 4:42pm
 Location: Romford Essex
 Outfit: Swift Charisma 550 + Kia Sorento SX
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    Hear we go again,

 " I've been gassed again ".

      Until I see an authoritative reference I will take this with a large pinch of salt. 17

Andy.



-------------
QUECHUA Base Seconds 4.1 + Seconds Base (standard).



June/July(3 weeks) Le- Papillon, Tarn Gorge,France 2012.Aug/Sept (3 weeks)2012. Les Mathevies, Dordogne, France



17/2/2013 at 5:40pm
 Location: N. Ireland
 Outfit: Elddis Avante 626 + Hyundai Sante Fe
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How are they going to get round the travellers that have single axle caravans?


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18/2/2013 at 9:11am
 Location: 
 Outfit: 
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French link here Google translate with Chrome browser or copy & paste.

It states B+E licence which those of us who passed our driving tests before '97 have anyway will allow car/caravan up to 7tonne gtw & as even a Discovery is less than this it won't affect many UK caravanners.

Provided the combination we are driving is legal on French roads & we have a UK driving licence which covers that combination then there is no problem.

The speed limits alluded to in the op have been in force for some yrs as have the(alleged & not enforced sticker requirements) & as for municipals banning double axles this 'rule' has always been there to prevent French 'travellers' taking over municipals but it is obvious that a holiday camper with UK registered outfit is not a traveller which is why UK reg twin axles don't usually have problems with admission to sites.

Post last edited on 18/02/2013 09:17:42


18/2/2013 at 10:44am
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...Here is probably where the op got confused but at the end of it it still allows a gtw combination, ie max combined weight of car caravan of 7tonnes on B+E licence which is unlikely affect even the heaviest of touring caravan/car combinations.



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